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Tandem Axle ?

Ford LT-9000

Banned
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
1,484
Location
B.C. Canada
Occupation
Rolling around in the dirt
If your getting offers to sell I would sell if the price is good. I'am in a job I really don't like but I gotta stick with it. I'am like you putting on a fake smile and dealing with it. Going to ride out the winter and see what spring brings.
 

Duke

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
366
Location
PA
Thank you all for your replies:notworthy
you all made some valid points.. Currently I have been getting phone calls by 2 brokers who want to buy me out. So that is why I want to go a differant route. So lets say I buy a $50000 used truck, It isnt going to brake the bank..

That is why I want to get into the trucking. Test the waters and see how much work is out their for a tandem.
If it goes well, upgrade to quad or, if it fails, sell the truck and move on.

It doesnt hurt to try. I also know that it will take time to get your name out, but that is one thing on my side( I'm 28).

Again thank you gentlemen for all your input.:usa

I think the mistake you are going to make is buying a tandem. If you think your goal is to end up in a quad, then just go get the quad. All the money & time you spend going after a tandem will be wasted. They're not that much different in price, but a lot different in capability.

Historically, my biggest mistakes have been buying equipment that was too small, not looking at the "bigger" picture. ;)
 

Underdog

Active Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
34
Location
Treasure Coast, Florida
If your going in the trucking business then you better read the post DOT/FMCSA 18 Month Mandatory Audit/Inspection . Thats why I sold my ford
Lt-8000 some years ago and bought a single axle Int. 1600 dump. I register it at 25999 Lbs. through with all the BS and paperwork!
 

Duke

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
366
Location
PA
If your going in the trucking business then you better read the post DOT/FMCSA 18 Month Mandatory Audit/Inspection . Thats why I sold my ford
Lt-8000 some years ago and bought a single axle Int. 1600 dump. I register it at 25999 Lbs. through with all the BS and paperwork!


yeah that's a whole 'nother bowl of BS the gov't is serving up to us. Probably in effort to regulate the small guy right out of business. I don't haul interstate and I'm not for hire, so I never registered for a DOT #. PA DOT says I'm not required to.
 

Ford LT-9000

Banned
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
1,484
Location
B.C. Canada
Occupation
Rolling around in the dirt
A DOT number is no big deal I have one for my F-450 I can truck all accross Canada if I wanted too. I just need to increase my insurance for the area I can travel. With my F-450 I need to keep track of my maintenance I'am under 160kms so I don't need a log book.
 

greywynd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
225
Location
Peterborough, Ontario
Well now that Canada's most knowledgeable businessman has spoken, you should have no further questions.:Banghead

Hey now, don't paint all us Canucks with that brush, after all, there is only one LT-9000. :D :D

At least he finally made it to a place he's suited, working for our wonderful guvn'ment. Now he can whine about his co-workers over at the DOT, the bureaucrats within the government, and do it all while sitting at his day job. Then after he's done there, whine about all the reasons that you need a 6axle, 12wheel drive truck to do anything in BC, of course it must be able to turn around in a 6' x 6' driveway, on a 55degree incline. :D :D
 
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Ford LT-9000

Banned
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
1,484
Location
B.C. Canada
Occupation
Rolling around in the dirt
Laugh all you want I got a job for life if I want it. I can retire at 55, I barely break a sweat and when its cold wet and miserable outside I'am dry. If the economy crashes in Canada I still be working. The wages I make are less than I can working in the dirt but working in the dirt isn't a guaranteed job. With areas like mine are out growing the infrastructure mainly water supply developing is coming to a screaching halt. The fresh water supply is tapped out it can't support anymore development. You can't use a drilled well its got arsnic (sp).
 

greywynd

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Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
225
Location
Peterborough, Ontario
Laugh all you want I got a job for life if I want it. I can retire at 55, I barely break a sweat and when its cold wet and miserable outside I'am dry. If the economy crashes in Canada I still be working. The wages I make are less than I can working in the dirt but working in the dirt isn't a guaranteed job. With areas like mine are out growing the infrastructure mainly water supply developing is coming to a screaching halt. The fresh water supply is tapped out it can't support anymore development. You can't use a drilled well its got arsnic (sp).

Well, with everything you know and have done, I thought you would be well over 55 now. All right, I made a mistake, my apologies.

I've said it on here before, and will say it again, I'm not a full time dirt mover, I'm a tool maker by trade, the true 'oldest profession'. (Ever wonder what the hookers were wanting to trade for their wares?) Being a government employee doesn't ever guarantee a job for life, just until the next election. As the quote goes though, "No one ever got rich working for someone else". Maybe in your case we could change that to "Never got rich whining for someone else...."?
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Being a government employee doesn't ever guarantee a job for life, just until the next election. As the quote goes though, "No one ever got rich working for someone else". Maybe in your case we could change that to "Never got rich whining for someone else...."?


I just have to comment on these two statements as I want to stay completely out of this conversation.

There is no quarantee of a job for life working anywhere government included, but I can honestly say I have been with them for 34 years and I've seen a lot of elections come and go.
I do agree that you will never get rich working for someone else. Okay thats it...carry on gentleman...sorry to interupt..
 

nedly05

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,801
Location
Adk. Mtns, NY
You have to fake a smile at work, but it's the only job available, the water supply is dwindling, the drilled wells are full of arsenic, the driveways are so steep you can't stand up on them and your F-450 runs out of braking power, all of the fords have orange cancer............IF BC IS SO BAD,WHY NOT MOVE??????
 

LowBoy

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
1,149
Location
Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
Occupation
Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
I think the big advantage you have is your truck was "paid for". We don't know if the OP's truck is "paid for" or financed. BIG difference in bottom line profits.

My take on trucking is forget about going it alone-keep the landscape biz-find some way to do both. All the newer guys I know who haul live in small homes and have lots of $$ problems. I'm sure there's plenty of guys who've been in the biz for 10-20 years who might have become successful, but it's usually because they're "connected" with someone who can feed them work constantly.

Here's an idea: Why not keep the landscape biz and open a mulch/stone/dirt yard and deliver to customers using a couple dump trucks? That way you can supply your landscape biz with cheaper mulch , dirt & stone and get your need to drive/own bigger trucks taken care of? :beatsme


I really shouldn't butt into this topic but it's another view anyway.

I've owned 6 trucks over 20 years. When I was single, and 21, I had a brand new 4964 Western Star tractor, and a 28' aluminum dump trailer. The first 6 months of business ownership, I accumulated 10K dollars in my account. I thought to myself, if this keeps going this way, I'll retire by 50 no problem.

A year later, I had a serious engine failure. I bought this truck slightly used with no remaining warranty, so that 10K diminished rapidly paying for that out-of-frame major.

Back up and running, I broke my a** as hard as a young, aggressive kid could to make up for the loss. I then purchased a second and third truck, and more trailers. Things appeared to be going good for me at my age.

Once I got married and this new female person actually needed stuff, the scenery changed a bit. Not much, but I was now supporting two. No regrets after 25 yrs., just a factoid.

1991 or 1992, fuel started to spike. I bought 100% of it in New Jersey, it was .95/gallon back in those days. Fill a truck up at 100 gallons, it cost me 95 bucks a day to run each truck. I was raking in some dough, too. Loaded both ways from Conn. to Pa. every day. Then things started to change.

Work shifted from a steady contract hauling scrap metal, to having the rate cut by 10.00/ton, and given the ultimatum to match it or leave, I left. Now all my backhauls that took me 5 years to arrange are null and void, because I couldn't break into the steady stream of southbound scrap metal freight to the same area again. Sold 2 rigs at that point.

Back to one truck, and this time a Case 580CK backhoe was added to my operation.(Can't believe I just admitted that Case thing...:D ) Did some smaller landscape-type work, driveways, decorative stone, etc. That was the best time I ever had involving heavy duty trucks. Soon afterward, a JD 350 dozer was purchased. I was suddenly making headway far quicker than I ever could with those trucks. It didn't take me long to figure out that buying and selling my own product was where it was at. Then, spreading and grading it for a fee was a bonus as well.

Years afterward, I once again concentrated on primarily trucking. In 2004, fuel was now 1.60/gal. and climbing ever since. It started to cut into our profit margin when we figured the increases in fuel versus the trucking rate increases. The rates NEVER seem to follow the cost increases.

That same formula that another person revealed in this thread a while ago is basically what we calculated for our expenses as well. Only thing was, I had $1600.00/month payment in there along with the rest of those ammortized figures.(Registrations and annual federal heavy vehicle tax and IFTA wasn't in there as far as I saw either.) I was looking forward to the day when I made the last payment, so I thought I would be able to pocket more money. Never seemed to happen quite that way...

You have to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and he wants more once you have little to no depreciation left on your equipment. That's another hidden little nasty. You also have a fairly worn out piece of iron once they're paid for, so repairs/maintenence is going to affect the budget.

For every guy that enters the trucking business, another exits it for one reason or another...mostly because of the lack of expected cash. I was one, last year we made the hard decision to sell again, and it was a wise one in our view. we were spinning our wheels paying everybody else, and not keeping enough to warrant the efforts. I might add, I did 99% of all work on the equipment to keep costs down. Those garages now are getting big $$.

You see steven101, what I'm trying to reveal to you is not to be negative about the trucking business if you want to go out and try it, because God knows, I tried it for over 20 years. Some people have better luck than others. You may have an outgoing, positive personality that people are attracted to and WANT you to be part of their team, I don't know...I have to say, in all honesty though, as I explained earlier about me making money buying and selling my own materials/products...don't ever stop that if you want to get into trucking. The trucking business isn't all it's cracked up to be these days. Guys make a living, some require less or more than others. Depends on your lifestyle and what you are used to. Also depends on your intentions. If building a fleet is the vision, then by all means, go for it. You'll work harder than you ever have to this point doing it, but in order to be a true winner financially in trucking, VOLUME is king. You'll need continuity, and volume, and diversity, meaning still doing the materials handling thing, to be comfortable eventually. That's it. Can't say any more, and I'm sure everybody's ecstatic that I can't. Hope I didn't sound like my Canadian counterpart here, I tried to balance the "pos". with the "neg".:D

Go get 'em, dude.:thumbsup
 

Ford LT-9000

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Rolling around in the dirt
The NATURE man can't get away from it when you can go fishing and hiking or hunting any time you want a guy can deal with a lack of work. Where I live I can throw a boat in the water and go out fishing or just fooling around.

Its why everybody flocks to B.C. its why Albertans buy up property like you wouldn't beleive. The money is really good in Alberta and you can make 100 grand a year but your living conditions are crap. Like they say there is more to life than money.

Anyhow I would love to get back to running hoe again or driving truck or being a owner operator dump truck. The contractors I have known since I was a kid all say stick with what you got. They know the skills I have etc but they don't see excavating in the area being a job that is going to last. Probably another 5 to 10 years you will see the excavation industry die off to nothing.

Any of the excavation contractors that are in business once they retire they are not interested in carrying the business on or selling to somebody. Even the contractors kids have gone to do something else. The industry isn't sustainable anymore the developable land has been developed and the work is slowly drying up. The jobs that supported people for 40 years are dissapearing like commercial fishing that has supported famillies for decades its just the way it is on Coastal B.C. .

Analists figure from now to 2011 there will be 900 job openings for heavy equipment operators in B.C. . Those jobs are to replaced retiring operators there is very little new job openings.

The service industry jobs is what will keep younger generation employeed like changing the diapers on you old buggers at the old age homes :laugh

Landscaping is trade that will never disapear people are getting lazier and always need somebody to mow their lawns or do landscaping. Mini excavating will probably never dissapear again it goes along with renovating and upgrading peoples homes. People will always renovate or up grade their property. Analists figure there will be 3200 or more jobs from now to 2011 or roughly 820 jobs per year.

Truck drivers are the highest job openings they analists figure 2600 job openings per year.

With your guys economy in the US on unstable ground you guys can't deny the fact that you guys are dipping your toe into the recession pool.

Do what you figure is going to suit your needs. If your going to sell your landscape company put that money away and get a job driving dump truck to see if your going to like it or not. You may not like having every bone in your body rattled and ever bump in the road your teeth feel like they are going to fall out :D
 

LowBoy

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Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
1,149
Location
Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
Occupation
Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
Anybody remember the theme song for HEE HAW? It went like this here...

"Gloom, despair and agony on me. Deep dark depression, excessive misery. If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all...Gloom, despair and agony on me...."

Old "Boreguard the Wonderdog" was the only upbeat in the whole place it seemed.:D
 

jmac

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
740
Location
Central NY
Nice post Lowboy! I think you said it well. I tried sub trucking for another trucking company and at $63.80 an hour you just get by. The trucking company I worked for told me that he makes more money off of the sub trucks than he does his own. The only time that I can say that I made $100 plus an hour with my truck was when I was selling the material to my customer that I was doing an excavating job for. Thats the answer in a nut shell. If you can keep the truck working for your own jobs or delivery of material for your customers not some elses than the truck can pay. I need the truck for my excavating buisness and not the other way around. The bigger the truck the better. I wish I had a 20 ton truck and not a 15 ton truck everyday. Around here I see alot of new trucks trucking for another trucking company and I don't see how they make money all year, in the summer working everyday yes but what happens in the winter or the need for trucking slows down. The guys with mulitple trucks and 100's of steady trucking customers have the best chance to make it in just trucking IMHO
 
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Steve Frazier

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Oct 30, 2003
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LaGrangeville, N.Y.
Thanks for the excellent post Lowboy!!:thumbsup It's refreshing to hear from someone who has actually experienced the ups and downs of running the business rather than the doom and gloom we've been coming accustomed to.

Life is full of decisions to be made, we all must weigh risk against reward in doing so. Those who are not willing to take a risk will not often see much in the way of reward.
 

steven101

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
11
Location
midwest
Thank you LowBoy for sheding some light on the subject.
As you already know, Im young, so I dont want to come across as a
"know it all". That is why I choose to ask on a open forum..

Although I own a company,, I still have alot to learn. I'm also not scared to ask questions or recieve constructive criticim.

As for trucking, My goal is to start slow and see were it leads.
If it doesnt work out, I have no problem working for somebody else.
 

Ford LT-9000

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Nov 17, 2005
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Location
B.C. Canada
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Rolling around in the dirt
I would try get a job running a dump first especially if you don't have the experience. Make all the learning mistakes on somebody elses truck it saves you money.

One of the local guys here bought a new dump thought he could make enough money just hauling with a dump. Its not working out that way he had to find other work running equipment. Maybe if he bought a dump back in 2002 a 140,000 dollar truck would be almost paid for.

Alot of these guys that are buying trucks can drive them but can't fix them so they are finding the repair bills are expensive. If you buy a dump truck you gotta beable to fix them.

You should consider to buy a air compressor, 1 inch impact wrench and a air powered jack. Doing tires is a regular chore unless your truck is a pavement queen. The second thing to get is a big wash tub for oil changes something else you can do at home.

A welder and cutting torches should be on the list aswell so you can do your own repairs to the box when needed. If you get a truck with a aluminum box then you might have to hire somebody aluminum is harder to repair.

Do as much as you can on your own and maybe get some more mechanical training to do the rest. Things like major engine repairs should be left to mechanics. Suspension work can be done at home or doing brakes on the truck.

A few cuts,bruises and burns isn't going to hurt. You can get used to banging your head while greasing the truck daily. When I was doing truck repairs I would go home at night with cuts on my fingers or bruises. The worst is doing tires talk about back killer. You get a stubborn Dayton wheel that doesn't want to come off.

Lots of fun which is all part of running a dump truck :drinkup
 

LowBoy

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
1,149
Location
Southern Vt. on the Mass./NH borders
Occupation
Owner, Iron Mountain Iron & Equipment (Transport)
Thank you LowBoy for sheding some light on the subject.
As you already know, Im young, so I dont want to come across as a
"know it all". That is why I choose to ask on a open forum..

Although I own a company,, I still have alot to learn. I'm also not scared to ask questions or recieve constructive criticim.

As for trucking, My goal is to start slow and see were it leads.
If it doesnt work out, I have no problem working for somebody else.


An excellent attitude to go into it with, steven101. Being you already have the fundamentals to operate a business with some savvy, you'll know enough to watch for tragedies I'm sure. jmac said it so right...$63.80/hr. sounds to most unexperienced people like a LOT of money, in reality it's not at all when dealing with trucks. As with any business, everything has a cost. Know what they are, calculate the figure you need to operate and live, give EVERY DOLLAR a name. I think you'll find in short order what I'm sharing isn't far off from the truth.

I can't drill it into your head hard enough either, about the first and foremost advantage if going into the dumptruck business...keep selling material. You'll be way ahead of the competition (and there's plenty of it,) while they're out sub-contracting for the "man" by the hour or ton, and you're buying bank run gravel at 6 bucks/yard, and adding your rate in and selling it for what your market will bear. That way, you get what you need for revenue. One of the biggest, most maddening statements I've ever encountered in the trucking business is hearing from an already filthy rich developer, contractor or broker when negotiating a deal is; "You'd be making too much money, the other guys are doing it for X"...I feel that's my business, don't you? I never once told my barber, plumber, or anyone else that, although I'd like to sometimes. By dealing your own goods, you can "bury" your deserving rate into the product, and not have to hear those stupid statements.

If possible, keep a skidsteer or compact tractor around so you get first dibs on pushing the material around, too if you can.:usa
 
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