Another Perkins Pukes

Jesse3474 said:

For future reference, the Perkins 6t is the only good Perkins engine they made bullet proof, 4 cylinders not so good

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That's a pretty bold statement. I'm sure that you could find a lot of people, even on this site, that have had great luck with a Perkins engine. I, for one, have a Cat 416C (4 cyl.) that has over 12,000 hours on it. The most major engine component that I have had to replace is the water pump.

Jesse3474 said:

For future reference, the Perkins 6t is the only good Perkins engine they made bullet proof, 4 cylinders not so good

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I don't have any idea what experience you have with the Perkins brand but I strongly disagree with that statement. I do agree some of the problems they have had more recently are a real shame but Perkins as a whole is a very good brand backed by some of the largest/best names in the market.

Cat had a problem with crank case vent freezing up in cold weather and they would suck all oil from crankcase, there was a kit to remove vent from intake, i had to rebuild a engine because of a few bent rods, customer need just one more day.

Steve Frazier said:

I finally have a conclusion to this story. Cat stepped up to the plate and provided me with a rebuilt engine at no charge provided I let their service department reassemble my core and transfer all components from the original to the rebuilt. That cost was about $1200. I also hired a mechanic to remove and install the engine which ran about $800 so my total cost was about $2000. The price of the rebuild alone was nearly $10,000 plus the $800 R&R would have been about $11,000 to me, a $9000 difference. It took quite some time to work out all the logistics but my 248 has a fresh motor in it.

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Great news Steve, after all the slams against Cat earlier in this thread, I think that this speaks to the integrity of the brand.

Yair . . . It's strange how urban myths get in the way of fact. Sure, Perkins have had problems with particular engine lines but I think that applies to other makes as well.

In general I believe they are a well respected engine. They were at the forefront of developing the "lightweight high speed" diesel and, like most Pommy machinery, they perfected the art of leaking oil . . . remember the 4-108?


Cheers.

Scrub Puller said:

Yair . . . It's strange how urban myths get in the way of fact. Sure, Perkins have had problems with particular engine lines but I think that applies to other makes as well.

In general I believe they are a well respected engine. They were at the forefront of developing the "lightweight high speed" diesel and, like most Pommy machinery, they perfected the art of leaking oil . . . remember the 4-108?


Cheers.

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How else do you suggest we stop them from rusting?

Oxbow said:

Great news Steve, after all the slams against Cat earlier in this thread, I think that this speaks to the integrity of the brand.

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There is no integrity in this issue for CAT. There are many guys who have paid dearly to get their machine fixed due to premature failure. Integrity would have been fixing the problem and standing behind it from the beginning when they knew they had a problem. This was the exact opposite of integrity by letting machines fail, then forcing the customer to beg and plead for help. Stretching out the process so the customer would foot the bill and if enough bitching was done, then extend some help but in the machines that I know of never paying all of it.

Oxbow said:

Great news Steve, after all the slams against Cat earlier in this thread, I think that this speaks to the integrity of the brand.

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The 3054's weren't all that great either.
I have 2 of them laying in my shop. one has a balancer that is in 5 pieces( mounting bolts came loose)
The other spun a main bearing and has a seized piston.
Both under 2200 hrs

KSSS said:

There is no integrity in this issue for CAT. There are many guys who have paid dearly to get their machine fixed due to premature failure. Integrity would have been fixing the problem and standing behind it from the beginning when they knew they had a problem. This was the exact opposite of integrity by letting machines fail, then forcing the customer to beg and plead for help. Stretching out the process so the customer would foot the bill and if enough bitching was done, then extend some help but in the machines that I know of never paying all of it.

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I guess we will have to agree to disgree! :drinkup

I've got mixed feelings on this whole ordeal. When I was shopping the machine back in 2000, I looked at Cat, Case, Deere and New Holland, they were the brands with local dealers. The Bobcat dealer at the time had a horrendous reputation for customer service so I didn't even consider that. New Holland didn't have pilot controls yet so I demoed the other three. I was so impressed with how the Cat operated I waited an additional year for high flow to become available before I purchased. I didn't do a price comparison between machines, the Cat just ran circles around the other brands for the work I was doing. The production rate was all that mattered to me. Plus there was a big Cat emblem on the back of the machine, what could go wrong? I knew the engine was a Perkins but that brand had been around forever and now had the Cat emblem on it as well.

The machine served me flawlessly up until the failure but that failure was catastrophic. When it happened my small landscaping business had already pretty much come to a halt due to the economy, but if it had occurred earlier it would have put me out of business. The estimated cost of repairs was just a couple thousand dollars less than the machine was worth when the motor blew. With my initial contact to my Cat dealer about the problem I was told there would be no help, the machine was 10 years old so it sat....... and sat while I tried to figure out what to do with my new lawn ornament. I contemplated swapping a Kubota or Cummins engine in but there was going to be a lot of on the fly engineering involved for that if I could figure out if they would fit in that space to start with.

As time went on and I was researching a solution I came across more and more similar stories, and a couple stories of where Cat had extended the warranty period and repaired these blown engines. That's when I contacted Corporate and explained my problem. I've explained what transpired after that earlier in this thread but the short version is they approved my dealer to analyze the failure and subsequently replace the engine. It took nearly 3 years for me to get my machine running again.

Again, I will state that Cat had no obligation to help me whatsoever, I was 7 years over the warranty period but I had minimal hours on the machine. I'm happy with the end result, my machine is repaired but not happy with the amount of time it took, nor that it happened in the first place. I'd have never imagined that my Perkins/Caterpillar engine had been manufactured in China, I assumed either England or USA, that information may have played a part in my initial purchase.

It is definetly a shame that it took so long to resolve Steve, but the fact that they eventually did stand behind their product despite being 7 years out of warranty is something that I doubt many manufacturers would do. I guess I would be dissapointed that your dealer didn't fight harder on your behalf initially.

Not looking for a fight over the issue Oxbow, but I have this to say. I think Steve could have/would have been happy that CAT did anything at all on a machine that far out of warranty IF this was a chance happening. The fact that these engines have been puking since inception changes all of that. It was a KNOWN problem, CAT could have done a number of things to make life easier for their unfortunate customers but they didn't. How many guys could have waited three years to get an engine replaced? Only Steve's unique circumstances allowed for that. Every OEM lays an egg, this was a big one (pretty bad when the repair over-values the machine) and CAT should not be let off the hook for it. The service that CAT customers often cite as reasons for purchase fell very short as it pertains to these engines.

Steve, from what I've seen here you'd never pull this card. But- is there any chance CAT knows of your role with HEF? While 3 years is unthinkble to try and survive a business without a major piece of equipment, you do now have your machine back. What would they have done for a small farmer/nursery person like myself?

Every time I log on to HEF, I appreciate the work you and all of the adminstrators do to help us. I cant say that I've done that so I don't have that "street cred" that you do.

I can't say whether this site had any bearing on my treatment or not. I've left cards for the site at the parts and service counters at my local dealer, and with the couple salesmen I know personally. They are aware of the site at the local level but I don't know if anyone informed corporate of it. All I know is within a week or so of sending an email to corporate complaining about my situation and how my research had turned up numerous cases similar to mine I got a call from my local service manager saying they wanted my engine for failure analysis.

All,

Does anyone know if there is any kind of class action lawsuit against CAT with the 3024 Perkins engine? After reading all the post on here and I am having the same issues with mine, was just wondering?

G

Ive been looking at an 06 257b......

I have one of these engines in my asv. I think. Anyone know the fail rate of them? 1%, 2%? more?

Gorman said:

I have one of these engines in my asv. I think. Anyone know the fail rate of them? 1%, 2%? more?

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So do i.
I also have two 3054 engines that came out of these ASV's, Guy that owned them engines ran 8 of these ASV 4810's,( you do the math on his failure rate)
1 of them spun a main bearing and has a seized piston, the other one has the balancer laying in the oil pan in 15 pieces,lol

So you're telling me that I have a 30% chance of my engine blowing up? That sounds like hyperbole, no offense. Wouldn't there be a recall or a fix for these problems?

Gorman said:

So you're telling me that I have a 30% chance of my engine blowing up? That sounds like hyperbole, no offense. Wouldn't there be a recall or a fix for these problems?

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Just don't overheat it,keep an eye on the temp and clean the rad often.
Also keep an eye on the front motor mount brackets where they are bolted to the the engine, the bolt holes are bored trough the block into the crank case cavity and if/when a bolt happens to dribble out the engine oil will follow.(would be better to replace these bolts with a glued in stud)
Other than that it'll be crap shoot with these engines.:beatsme
Oh,.. BTW these 2 engines i have packed it in with less than 2000 hrs on them

Cat don't care.,,IMO The problem lies with insufficient cooling capacity with the rather small rad in these ASV's, especially if one runs a mulcher head.