Equipment Automation

I brought this up awhile ago on a thread and many put down the idea, particularly a few from "Down Under". This article showed up on my radar recently. It is a very interesting read.

http://sourceable.net/rio-tinto-launches-automated-mine-future/#!

John,

You've piqued my interest, what thread did you bring this up in?

I've been trying to find it but the titles I've searched through with my handle on them don't seem to catch the thread again. I believe it had to do with GPS and making machines easier to operate. My point was that easy to operate points to machines that don't need an operator. From my point of view if Google can run driverless cars around Mexifornia, then it won't be a big step to running a dozer across a job site or programing an excavator to dig a ditch.

Yair . . . I have been puzzling over this automation thing for a while. Sure I reckon anything is possible, but in a world with a population rising at around ninety million a year a simple old bush bloke like me thinks folks must have jobs.

I am no Luddite but at some point this profit driven automation B/S has surely got to stop. There needs to be a fundamental change in thinking.

I refer to a very old post of mine where I mentioned a huge Chinese financed industrial precinct being constructed in Laos. Some excavation contractors use "modern" methods with excavators and others arrive on site with a dump truck load of guys with picks shovels, and generators with electric jack hammers.

I know which one should get preferential treatment and tax breaks.

And I won't wear that story about you couldn't find people to work that way. I react the same when folks tell me they have a cat, dog, kid or whatever that's a "fussy eater" and will only eat this or that. There is no such thing as a fussy eater . . . only eaters with various degrees of tolerance to hunger.

Another thought. It seems to be possible these days (due to automation) to build a low-tech serviceable fuel efficient fifty horsepower tractor for under twenty grand. I'd rather see twenty of them in a paddock than two five hundred horsepower monsters. . . here again it all comes down to government to introduce incentives and tax breaks.

Cheers

Yair . . . Scrub Puller, I'm actually with you on this. I can see putting automation in dangerous jobs where the risk of getting hurt is great. But the impetuous seems to be only spend less money to get more profit. All the truck drivers and equipment operators are only considered an expensive computer that has to be constantly fed, needs time off for sleep, gets paid in excess of what some bean counter thinks is a good living. Millions for company executives and the people on the bottom are just beasts of burden.

But then again the Pandora's box is open and it is every man for themselves. There is still some time left for people operating machines but if you are young you better plan on getting training in something other than being an iron jockey. I suppose it can only last that way so long because with enough people out of work and hungry, societies tend to break down. The French Revolution comes to mind. The auto industry automated quite awhile ago. Possibly the bankruptcy of Detroit is a harbinger of things to come.

Thats interesting Jonn C. This probably isn't the thread but I remember you talking about equipment automation on a post. www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?12941-Equipment-of-the-future-will-have

Its here for sure. I first saw it on a John Deere sprayer few years ago. We noticed that when the spray rigg was neering the end of the field on "point" rows the spray nozzles would start shutting off automatically at the boom to prevent spray overlap. Pretty cool. I Hang on to the past for the most part but will have to move into the future one of these day's Check out the video of the JD sprayer www.deere.com/en_US/media/player/pl...uct_intro/57254_r4038_technologies_online.mp4

Have to add that I first remember seeing GPS units on fleet trucks in the early 1990's. I was working on one and the driver kept telling me his truck had this round pod like device on the roof that allowed the trucking company to track the vehicle. Being in my early 20's at the time I'm thinking "yeah whatever" Your clutch is adjusted & good to go buddy. LOL

Yair . . . John C.. It's an interesting conundrum. These are the issues that I find interesting.

Without venturing into the questionable territory of politics I have long thought that income derived by any individual or business, doing useful work be it a mechanic repairing equipment, a truck driver delivering goods, a doctor consulting patients, a solicitor writing briefs and so on should be relatively lowly taxed and "unearned" income such as loaning money (often at ursurous interest rates), stock market speculation, real estate speculation should provide the bulk of the taxation pool to run our countries.

In other words an incentive for folks to work and employ people to actually do and make and produce tangible things. It probably sounds naïve and simplistic but our present system seems to need an upgrade.

A bit O/T on your thread about automation but I am sure you get my drift.

Cheers.

Scrub Puller said:

Another thought. It seems to be possible these days (due to automation) to build a low-tech serviceable fuel efficient fifty horsepower tractor for under twenty grand. I'd rather see twenty of them in a paddock than two five hundred horsepower monsters.
Cheers

Click to expand...

There are a couple of problems with your plan:
1. Finding twenty operators. Its hard enough to find one.
2. Getting those twenty operators to work for 10% of the wages that the 500 horsepower tractor operator gets.

Cat has it as well. I think in Norway a contractor is doing some clean up on a bomb range. Good to keep the fellas out of the range of a mortar or tank round. US have been developing automated trucks for supply delivery in the Army. No Joes in the seat so shoot all you want!

Yair . . . Plant Fitter. I am talking about a different scenario where current norms and values are of little use or consequence in an energy constrained world.

There and are lots of problems with my plan but those problems will need to be confronted in the not too far distant future.

As posted above I can absolutely guarantee operators for those tractors if it became a matter of driving them or going hungry.

I have been involved in some of the largest land "improvement" and "development" schemes in this country and I absolutely hate the notion of big Agribusiness carving the guts out of marginal country . . . having a seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar rig waiting for rain to plant a crop in thirteen inch rainfall country isn't farming, that's gambling.

I believe we need to get away from the notion that big is better and get back to the basics of the family farm and local production . . . going way off topic on John C's automation thread so I'll close it out at that. (he grins)

Cheers.

Scrub Puller said:

As posted above I can absolutely guarantee operators for those tractors if it became a matter of driving them or going hungry.

Click to expand...

I agree, a lot of the problem is that people in this country have had it too good for too long.

Scrub, I agree on getting back to the basics of the family farm and local production.... I own and operate a family farm, but the problem is all input costs have skyrocketed and farm machinery is off the chart in the expensive category. The only way to offset these costs are to get bigger to try to spread these costs over more acres. This requires massive capital outlays to stay in the game. In addition, the price of cropland in our area, capable of producing 200 plus bushel corn per acre is now worth 7-10,000.00 per acre. The point is, the family farmer is being slowly pushed out due to the economics of agriculture in general here in the US. Plainly put, we have become victoms of our own success.

Scrub Puller said:

Yair . . . Plant Fitter. I am talking about a different scenario where current norms and values are of little use or consequence in an energy constrained world.

There and are lots of problems with my plan but those problems will need to be confronted in the not too far distant future.

As posted above I can absolutely guarantee operators for those tractors if it became a matter of driving them or going hungry.

I have been involved in some of the largest land "improvement" and "development" schemes in this country and I absolutely hate the notion of big Agribusiness carving the guts out of marginal country . . . having a seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar rig waiting for rain to plant a crop in thirteen inch rainfall country isn't farming, that's gambling.

I believe we need to get away from the notion that big is better and get back to the basics of the family farm and local production . . . going way off topic on John C's automation thread so I'll close it out at that. (he grins)

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Yair . . . JBGASH. Thanks for reply and I understand your situation.

The point I make is that the system has to change. It won't happen quickly and I don't believe I will see it in my lifetime but there needs to be a complete change in the way we think about producing our food.

I believe Plant Fitter in the #11 post pretty much has nailed it . . . we have had it too good for too long and systems have evolved where the farmer is being squeezed to provide profits for the middle men and the population in the general do not appreciate their privileged position of having plenty of (relatively) cheap food.

Huge scale and centralisation of supply chains are not the answer. Most small towns here do not have a butcher or a baker anymore, due in part to onerous regulations . . . I don't remember people getting sick in droves when meat was cut on timber chopping blocks and the shop had sawdust on the floor.

As I have posted before, I am a Dinosaur from a bygone era but I believe in due course we will need to return to simpler more common-sense governance and mores and values that made our countries great.

Gone off topic again sorry John C.

Cheers.

Here's a couple of links to what's happening in QLD right now. I included the bit about the 8000 as hitachi are going to use one of our 3600's for the trials and they came up with some deal for the 8000. It's the first 8000 excavator for hitachi.

http://www.hitachi-c-m.com/au/news/press/PR20130412125000570.html

http://www.miningaustralia.com.au/news/hitachi-to-trial-automated-trucks-at-meandu-coal-m

http://southburnett.com.au/news2/2013/09/atlas-ready-for-action/