daves thread

Yes the radials can be retreaded for a couple hundred dolars or less. Call Bauer Built. They are the local Michelin retreader.

durallymax said:

....something better, but instead we just replace them with $200 Marine Kenwoods that have far more features and work much much better.

As for CNH ride control, I think Stumpy Wally has a new project on his hands. I am sure with some minor wiring skills you could turn that momentary switch either into a simple on off switch or you could wire it through a relay where each time you click the momentary switch it turns the ride control to the opposite of what it currently is, kind of like Cat's two speed trigger.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on replacing the Jensen with a marine Kenwood.

And I agree totally with just putting a USB port on the radio...that would be a simple, elegant addition.

Also, an interesting idea for my next project...to turn the NH ride control switch continuous hold switch into a a on/off toggle...although it doesn't bother me that much as it is.

Actually, my next projects are to possibly try to sound proof the NH cab more with some Dynamat (very expensive stuff!!), and to add a left side console mounted switch for the cabin light, not to mention add a much brighter cabin light (one you can actually see or read something by...I hope it's not just my old eyes).

What's the interior cabin light like in the new Cat D series and in the JCB?? How is it turned on/off??

In your case you wouldnt be able to put in the type of Kenwood I am referring to. I was referring to the issues we have with the Single DIN Jensens and replacing them with single DIN Kenwoods which wouldnt fit in the CNH location at all. Single DIN radios are the most popular and are very deep.

As for Dynamat, Id agree those NH cabs need it. Ive used it in one of our Semis and it did help. Buy the Extreme bulk pack. Its $170 on Amazon IIRC and is the best deal. I also used their dynaliner for insulation.

As far as interior lights go Ive had good luck with some 12" strip bars from Grote. They are about $40 and are LED surface mount.

Not sure if the D series Cats are different from the C series but on both our B and C series the lightbis turned on simply by pushing on the lens.

Yea, after a little research I learned the same thing...Kenwoods only come in the DIN form factor, which won't work in my NH.

You know, part of the sound problem may just be that the Jensen speakers are behind the head liner, with no grille or holes thru the head liner. Are the CAT D series speakers mounted the same??

Thanks for the Amazon tip on the Dynamat, but I had already decided that Amazon was the best place to buy it. I just need to figure out how much I need...the 9 sf pack or the 36 sf pack.

I'll check out the LED strip bars from Grote. Thanks.

Pushing the lens to turn on/off the cabin light is good. On my NH, it has a 3 position switch on the light...off-on-off. Clearly, one of the off positions was meant to connect it to a external switch...like a door push button switch. Too bad the engineers didn't put one on the door!!

You know, I have a 2005 NH EH80 CS excavator (a Kobelco really) that I love. It has all the cab features that I wish my NH skid steer had...cabin light switch on the door, DIN radio that sounds good, quiet cab, even with the door open, spacious cab, side entry cab (like a JCB), skylight that is made to open easily, heated cloth suspension seat (my NH has that but the seat is not as adjustable for tilt & back support), etc. Most other excavators have these cab features also. What's taking the skid steer engineers SO long to catch on??? IMHO they need to just think a little and/or spend some time in a skid steer cab, & then an excavator cad, to see the light...

The Cat speakers are behind the headliner as well. Keeps them cleaner and working longer I would think. They seem larger than the NH ones though which makes a huge difference.

The Cat light is 3 position too but not hooked into the door as a courtesy light.

They are starting to make the seats better. The new high back Cat seats in the D series allow backrest adjustment. Cant remember if they offer lumbar though.

I think a lot of it has to do with how young the SSL market is. Cat has only been making them since the late 90s. The expectations out of SSLs are increasing fast too as are the prices. People never sat in them all day before, now they do. We bought an LS170 new in 05 and the L220 we bought in 2012 was 10k higher. I think theyre afraid to move too far too fast.

ah i see the local dealer got in a bunch of the new gehl r series skid steers. of course with t bar controls. i will never know how anyones wrist can stand to turn those things. ah they seem like pretty sweet rides, if the year was 1999. at least with this model... it will probably allow them to retain their current gehl skid steer customers, but wont attract any new customers. i will say it looks like it is built tough...well except for the rear door because i demand much out of my rear doors.

i do not really demand that much out of my skid steer. good visibility, good seat, modular quiet cab, good joysticks. thats about it. i couldnt care less about all the gadgetry on the new cats. camera, snubbing, return to dig shenanigans, bucket leveling, etc. we had 2 machines with bucket leveling and i never did used it. seems to me whenever its on im just fighting it all the time cuz i rarely want the bucket to remain level as i am raising it; seems to me whatever is in the bucket just falls out if you dont get a pretty good angle on it while raising. i will say it at least makes sense to have it now that it works both ways. but i have never been a big fan of the electric cuz it takes away your cycle time. there is an art to dumping into a truck/spreader and a one size fits all approach does not work out. i like to have the control over my machine. i did have respect for the old case mechanical self leveling however.

as far as the high back seat; is that really that desirable? seems to me the bumps would have more leverage on you and your head/neck would always be bouncing forward. the high back seat seems to me it would have a whip lashing effect.

the jcb has a light that you touch to turn on. seems to work i dont know if its excessively bright though. it also has a jensen radio but it seems to sound good, and the weather band is really nice on it. the ipod hook up was always supposed to be inside the arm rest compartment, it doesnt really work out too good having it on the front of the radio. but aint nobody got time to mess around with that anyway.

what does din mean.

ic jcb moved to the electric quick tach on the tier 4. seems to me that is less desirable. im unimpressed with the chinsy screen in the back door now, at least cat put some angle irons across their screen.

i feel like a skid loader would benefit a lot from a seat like our tractors have in them, where there is a forward backward side to side cushioning via springs and gas cylinders in the seat suspension. not just up and down.

also it looks like they beefed up that tilt cylinder (that people say break) there has gotta be like a 5 inch round pin holding that cylinder on now it is huge. if your breaking that you are hard on equipment.

I use return to dig all the time and make a lot of our operators use it as well. Too many guys digging deep holes loading out piles and too much wear on cutting edges on concrete. Not using return to dig is a quick way to make the guys at the quarries mad too when you start making a mess out of their piles.

As for the high back seat, I like them in everything else as long as you dont have to turn around a lot. Im guessing it just fits well with the rest of Cats equipment.

I will agree that for and aft suspension would be nice at a minimum. I think that does more work than up and down in enough of our tractors.

DIN is the "Duetsches Institut für Normung". Otherwise known as the German institute for standardization. They eet a lot of electrical standards. The size of automobile radios is one of them a Single DIN radio is what you will most commonly find for sale. A double DIN takes up two DIN spaces and so on.

I can see where 'return to dig' could be useful...& self-leveling makes a lot more sense if it works both up & down like Cats.

The one nice thing about ride control on my NH is that it can be invoked while carrying a load. Dave, did I understand you correctly when you said that in your JCB you had to turn it on BEFORE picking up a load??

Just for the heck of it, I measured the glass-to-glass width of my NH L220 cab across the top of the EH joysticks...33.5"

Durallymax, what is that same width in your Cat D series cab??

Dave Esterns, what is that same width in your JCB new generation cab??

Loading manure is when the self level comes in handy, you set the bucket angle where you want it to keep the liquid in and lift and dont get a bath in manure. Of course now with cabs our operators have become more careless since they have protection.

Dave made it sound like the booms had to be down for ride control to engage. On our Cat's its simply speed dependent but like I mentioned when it first goes to charge the accumulators or whatever it does when it kicks in for the first time with a heavy load you get a decent jolt, but for everytime after that it is setup for that size load and is not an issue it seems. I am not entirely sure how it works, but I am impressed with it.

I do not have a D series but I measured out C series which should have very similar dimensions.

Across the joysticks the cab is 33" wide glass to glass. Subtract 1" as the upper halfs of the windows each come in about a half inch. Otherwise the cab stays that width back to the B pillars.

I also took some other measurements if you wanted to compare. From the bottom of the rear window to the front door it is 54" long. From the seat back when slid all the way back to the front door it is 39".

From the floor to the ceiling it is 57" and from the seat bottom when aired up with nobody on it it is 37" from the cushion to the ceiling. The seat has a lot of travel though.

As an after thought, I just measured the cab width on my NH EH80 CS excavator, where the cab feels "spacious". Glass-to-glass width across the top of the joysticks = 37.5". Based on its feel, I would have bet it was more. What a difference that 4.5" makes compared to the 33.5" in my NH L220 SSL.

My glass side windows on the L220 slide back full height, so that width stays the same.

I will take more measurements as you did & report them. Too bad you don't have a D series...I remember feeling cramped in the C series cab, but much less so when I sat in the D series.

When I get a demo on one I'll try to remember to take some measurements. The cab looks the same dimensions wise but with updated panels so that it seals better.

More on cabs & dimensions....

A correction on one of my previous posts...My NH/kobelco EH80 CS excavator's cloth suspension seat is NOT heated, but that's OK because the cab heater can burn you out of the cab anyway.

Milton Cat is only a 15 minute drive away, so I went there & sat in & measured a C series & D series cab. I summarized all my measurements in the attached PDF, & have included the source spreadsheet in a zip for further use by anyone.

According to my measurements & observations, the Cat C & D cabs are identical. Compared to my NH L220, the Cat cabs are slightly narrower & have slightly less inside height, but the Cat cabs are longer behind the seat (but not useful space) & have a lower entrance lip. In fact, the approach to the Cat cabs over the front of the boom is quite flat, uncluttered & nice. And the C & D cabs have split lap bars that along with the joysticks not only move with the seat but are individually & quickly adjustable. That plus the large skylight I think makes those cabs feel as comfortable as they do. However, there is the bad radio location, & I'm not impressed with the glass door, which seems flimsy because of its lack of much of a frame. It seems to be just a piece of curved glass with a gasket on it.

All the skid steer seats have very little adjustment front to back & up & down, particularly compared to the seat in my excavator, which adjusts probably 6" front/back & up/down, not mention will tilt & change backrest angle.

While at the Cat dealer, I also sat in a B series cab (they had a D, C & B machines side-by-side). In an instant, it all came back to me how completely 'suckfull' the cab was!! It's not that it is so much smaller, I think, it's more that it just feels awkward. I bang into everything, & the one piece lap bar is a pain.

Interestingly, almost all the SSLs Milton Cat had on display/stock were B series...maybe nobody wants them because of the cab. I certainly wouldn't want one.

So come on Dave, give us some JCB cab measurements & blow us all away!!! Feel free to download & use the attached spreadsheet. I don't have ready access to JCB machines (dealer is much further away & doesn't usually stock SSLs/CTLs), so you're my source.

Now, on to 2 other nagging questions...why do Cat & Bobcat doors open to the right, while everyone else opens to the left??

And...why don't more SSL/CTLs have doors that slide up into the cab roof, like an excavator?? The only ones that do that I know of are Kubota & Takeuchi. Whenever I've asked any dealer, they always say that there is too much vibration & the sliding doors don't stay up. I think that's a BS answer.

And finally, to both Dave Esterns & durallymax, why do you use SSLs in your farm work rather than small, articulated loaders? You work on hard surfaces, & the small loaders are all side entry with comfortable cabs, probably have larger payloads & would be much easier on tires & fuel. You don't seem to need the auxiliary hydraulics that the SSLs offer. I think the small loader is more popular for farm work in Europe, & most tree nurseries around here use them. Some farmers, too. And you have your pick of makers (Cat, NH, Case, JD, JCB, Wacker-Neuson, Kubota)

Before I went with an SSL, I considered a small, articulated loader...but I needed tracks for flotation & low ground pressure, & a small size for work in the woods. Also, after having used a tractor-loader for years, I liked the idea of being more 'intimate' with the working end of my bucket/blade/forks. I dismissed a small loader before I even got to price. What are your thoughts??

Definitely some good ideas on this thread....I really enjoy hearing how you guys (the end users) feel about certain features/ergonomics of different machines.....a few that I feel the JCB could certainly benefit:

Adjustable control pods that move with the seat suspension/travel (like the Cat...nicely done, and should be easy now that they are all EH controls)
Return to dig...also nice
Speed adjustable smoothride

Cat definitely has some nice features that I think all brands could benefit from. Was I understanding correctly that someone said that the Cat cab is now fully integrated when raised? Meaning that there is an actual "floor" to it, like the JCB? I really think this is one of our stand-out features that most people overlook. It attributes significantly to our overall cab comfort for noise levels and dust ingress.

Anyway, I will definitely be relaying these suggestions to JCB next chance I get, because I think you guys all have some valid improvement suggestions. Thanks for the input guys.

hahah aint nobody got time for this! well i will have to carve out a little time because my obsession with skid steers is worth it.

jcb width of glass at top of joysticks. 35.5
width of glass at joystick level 36
bottom rear to front glass 47.5
bottom of seat back to front glass 41
floor to ceiling at seat front 56.5 +1
seat bottom to ceiling 39.5

seat front to front of cab 25 (leg/foot room length.)
cab floor to ground level 19 "

seat back is adjustable as are joysticks.

our farm was built around a skid steer. a small articulated loader would be way too big for what we do. if it was up to me i would have a large end loader to do all farm chores and nothing else.

its true the jcb makes you have the boom down all the way to engage soft ride. although i have gotten it to engage a time or 2 with no load in the bucket. this was a disappointment when i found this out. having the boom down is not as big a deal as not having the button on the joystick to activate.

Cat C series cabs were fully sealed with the floor and everything. The D series uses better panels with fewer gaps to get a tighter seal and the HVAC is attached to the underside of the cab. It used to sit underneath the cab and would seperate when the cab was lifted. I think having the floor sealed like Cat and JCB is the only way to get a high pressure seal and keep it.


For us its in the name, skid steer, they are very manueverable and universal. We use the the auxillaries for many different attachments.

Dave...thanks for the JCB cab dimensions. I've updated & attached my cab dimension spreadsheet. As expected, the JCB cab is bigger in all the important dimensions.

Durallymax...I didn't appreciate that you use a lot of hydraulic attachments in your farm work. Although more small articulated loaders are becoming much more aux hydraulic capable.

Dave & durallymax...it sounds like your choice of SSL over loader comes down to their smaller size & extreme maneuverability. Same as 2 of my reasons for picking a SSL for my frequent working in the woods & around my property. I'm not surprised when I think back to the low barns & their confined spaces on the dairy farms I grew up on.

Dave, durallymax & JCBiron...any input on my question of why do Cat & Bobcat doors open to the right, while everyone else opens to the left?? Or thoughts on doors that slide up rather than hinge?? Of course, Dave & JCBiron you have a better solution in the side entry door.

JCBiron...so it seems that you should let at least Dave & I know when JCB/Volvo improves their current SSLs with the following (not in any prioritized order):

1. E-H controls that are adjustable for sensitivity.
2. Joysticks & split lap bar that slides with the seat & are both independently adjustable.
3. Ride control/smooth ride that is toggled on/off with a button on the right joystick when the boom is in any position. It shouldn't have to be speed dependent, or if it is, allow the speed dependency to be turned off (set speed to zero).
4. Return-to-dig hydraulic functionality.
5. Seat back & seat that independently adjust for tilt.
6. Hydraulic load leveling that works both down & up.
7. Wide track option on the small frame CTL, to allow it to achieve the lowest ground pressure of the line.
8. A cab light that is bright enough to allow reading in the cab, & can be switched on even when the machine is off. The switch should be big enough to operate with gloved hands, & should be on the dash near the door, so it can be turned on when the door is opened before getting in (think getting in in the dark in the winter).
9. A rear drawbar/receiver hitch option, with an additional option for a rear electric winch outlet.
10. A side light option.
11. A master battery disconnect switch, preferably activated from the cab.

These "little" improvements would make an already unique machine really outstanding in my opinion, & without equal in the market.

Any other ideas, Dave...

i do enjoy how skid steers are far enough behind the times that they have not all become basically the same machine like cars and tractors have. this is like the hay day of farming when tractors of different brands were significantly different and farmers could discuss all day why their machine is better than the rest. this is why i appreciate the jcb, they are different; it stirs the pot a little.

word on the street is within a few months the tier 4 small frame jcbs will be out. they will have the pattern changer and sensitivity settings. the large frames already have this. i suspect that the way the door opens has been grandfathered in from back in the day. originally the front door was just a few guys trying to slap something on there so a heater could work so people didn't freeze in the winter. i don't thing too much thought went into it but once people got used to the way the door opened on that brand, thats just the way it ended up. seems to me the cab never really took off till bobcat started giving it away free around the year 2000 i believe. i would think there would be an iso standard for this somewhere though.

as far as the roll up door, i would absolutely hate that. i get in and out way too many times a day to try to deal with that. i suspect that with a little age and less than ideal maintenance the door would not work quite so good after a while as well. at least thats the way all the old deere skid steer doors ended up that i have seen farmers running around with. i assume you can drive the machine with the door open which would actually be a nice feature. seems that you would probably hit your head on it though. also sealing the door becomes next to impossible as well. my preference is just a regular door, but i suppose one could argue either way.

the joysticks are adjustable on our jcb. the seat and joysticks really work good the way its all set up. the only improvement i could see would be attaching everything to the seat suspension, which would be a very simple task. i suspect i could even do it if i had the time. the seat back does adjust for tilt, the bottom cushion does not.

the cab light i think would be all good if it turned on with the door. its definitely bright enough for me to do reading and such.

i believe a master battery disconnect is available but you have to open the back door to get at it.

side lights would be handy. also more light down right in front of the machine just in front of the tires so one can see more whats going on while back dragging at night.

I forgot item 12 on my JCB improvement list:
12. A hinged skylight that is easily latched shut, al la excavator style. Tinted glass in the skylight, or even all around, would be nice, too.

Dave, thanks for your input & support of the improvement ideas. Just a word of clarification, though...

Re: the cab light, a simple door operated switch would be an improvement, but I still would like a large on/off switch that can be operated with a gloved hand so that the light can be turned on/off when the door is closed when you need to see or read something.

Re: the battery disconnect, I added an optional one to my NH L220, because I found that with the increasing electrification of the machines, sometimes a relay becomes 'stuck' on & winds up draining the battery when the machine is off. Also, I find trickle charging the battery works much better with the battery disconnected. So, I'm in the habit of disconnecting the battery at the end of every day. But then the next day when I get in the cab to start, half the time I discover that I forgot to re-connect the battery before getting in!! Hence, the in-cab operated battery disconnect would help my forgetfulness!!

The battery disconnect also supplements the anti-theft, operator code keyless start system in my NH, which I presume is also available in the JCB.

I hope you're right about the new small Tier 4's coming out in early 2014. I will definitely want to look at them. As long as they have the improved ride control, adjustable E-H sensitivity, joysticks/lap bar that slide with the seat, & wide tracks, I would be disappointed in not having the rest, but I could 'make do' or 'cob' the rest.

I think the door swings the way it does so you don't have to step over hydraulic hoses.

Digdeep:

Duh...that makes perfect sense..why didn't I think of that. Most of the time I have a bucket or forks mounted, so I don't think about hydraulic hoses. But in the winter with my hydraulic angle snow plow mounted the hoses are in my way with the left opening door.

So, now I have to wonder why all SSL front swing doors aren't designed to open to the right??

And Dave, I think the way you would use a front roll up door is that if you're getting in & out a lot, you would just run with the door up. You would only put it down when you were going to be seated for a while. For me, when I'm working in the woods & the mud, sometimes I need to get in/out on the left, sometimes on the right, so a roll up door would work. But, I would still consider it a less good alternative than the JCB side entry.

As for sealing a roll up door, the front glass/frame in my excavator rolls up & uses a cam-latch system, which seals the frame in when you close the two latches. So it can be done.