Wacker Neuson Skid Steer

Check this out, I saw it driving down the highway yesterday in Wisconsin...I know about the the small Wacker equipment and I have seen their excavators but never seen one of these. Do you think these are coming to the US??? Anyone know anything?

Looks like its here already I would imagine since everyone else has a CTL they are either re-badging another manufacturers machine or making theirs from scratch, hard to tell doin 80 down the highway...

Wacker makes mini ex's and small articulated loaders, gehls rebadges Wacker equipment. From the angle it does not look like a straight rebadge to me. If they can build a full line of mini ex, they should be able to build a track machine.

Its their own ground up machine.

You got to see something that not many got to see yet. I talked to one of the reps at ICUEE in Louisville Ky on October 1 and he told me that they were having a big meeting in Wisconsin this week to unvaile the new skidsteer loader. At that point he had not even seen a pic of it yet and was being kept under wraps. They knew it was coming out but didnt even have any specs on it for them yet.

I was at the unveiling this week and have been involved with the project for some time. Its well designed machine.

KSSS said:

I was at the unveiling this week and have been involved with the project for some time. Its well designed machine.

Click to expand...

Shane...Would you give up your Case machine for a Wacker in its place?

I'm curious to learn more about them once they put them up on their website.

The machines they are releasing first are the large frame 75 hp, they will release the 100 hp (or so) machines later. When those hit the ground i will be ready for a new 3k +ROC wheeled machine. We will see at that time if their machine fits what i need. However based on what i see so far, i would own one without hesitation. Many of the components are similiar to what i run, Engine is the same 3.4, the drive motors on ctl are same, pumps are same of course configuration i am sure is different. The controls are pilot, and still being tweaked but i thought the feel was real good, just some small improvements i thought could be made in response, but then i have been running E/H and so i am used to minimal joystick input.

KSSS said:

The machines they are releasing first are the large frame 75 hp, they will release the 100 hp (or so) machines later. When those hit the ground i will be ready for a new 3k +ROC wheeled machine. We will see at that time if their machine fits what i need. However based on what i see so far, i would own one without hesitation. Many of the components are similiar to what i run, Engine is the same 3.4, the drive motors on ctl are same, pumps are same of course configuration i am sure is different. The controls are pilot, and still being tweaked but i thought the feel was real good, just some small improvements i thought could be made in response, but then i have been running E/H and so i am used to minimal joystick input.

Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to seeing them when they launch. It's always interesting when new iron comes out.

It'll be interesting to see how they do. I think that they will struggle, at least early on similarly to JCB- very small/poor dealer network, questionable resale at this point, etc. I think my closest Wacker dealer is about 30 miles and they are also the JD and Bobcat dealer. Hard to see them really pushing the skids and CTLs. Unless of course, they can figure something out that JCB hasn't been able to do yet in their long run in the US so far.

I think it's very hard to compare anything to the JCB, even though its a skid steer, it is soooo different with the one sided loader arm. I like the idea of the side entrance, but it's awfully hard to sell an old school operator on that idea that the arm won't tweak. I have a Volvo dealer near me and they sell the Volvo skids (JCBs) and I have yet to see one on a job.

Tags said:

I think it's very hard to compare anything to the JCB, even though its a skid steer, it is soooo different with the one sided loader arm. I like the idea of the side entrance, but it's awfully hard to sell an old school operator on that idea that the arm won't tweak. I have a Volvo dealer near me and they sell the Volvo skids (JCBs) and I have yet to see one on a job.

Click to expand...

Well as for tweeking, our 185 JCB has snapped one of the rear boom pins twice.
Then again we have guys who you could put in a padded cell naked with bowling ball and five minutes later let them out to find the ball in tiny pieces.

The side entrance is nice at least from a safety stand point, too many dummies will climb in and out under a raised boom. Problem is that big boom to the right causes a major safety problem of a blind spot. Win some, loose some.

Tags said:

I think it's very hard to compare anything to the JCB, even though its a skid steer, it is soooo different with the one sided loader arm. I like the idea of the side entrance, but it's awfully hard to sell an old school operator on that idea that the arm won't tweak. I have a Volvo dealer near me and they sell the Volvo skids (JCBs) and I have yet to see one on a job.

Click to expand...

Tags said:

I think it's very hard to compare anything to the JCB, even though its a skid steer, it is soooo different with the one sided loader arm. I like the idea of the side entrance, but it's awfully hard to sell an old school operator on that idea that the arm won't tweak. I have a Volvo dealer near me and they sell the Volvo skids (JCBs) and I have yet to see one on a job.

Click to expand...

I'm not really talking about the Robot in particular, but more about JCB's long presence in the North American market without much traction. They have the global market share lead in backhoes, but barely have a blip in market share here. I think this is directly associated with not having a strong dealer network focused on their product as the primary revenue generator.

I see much the same thing happening with the Wacker product in general. They have many dealers and sub good products, especially hand held, but the majority of their dealers already have prime lines such as Bobcat, Kubota, Deere, CNH, etc. overcoming that resistance will be extremely difficult for them just as it has been for JCB, a very successful company with lots of money to throw at the challenge.

From my experience the JCB skidsteers are junk. A paper mill I deal with bought a 260 I believe to replace a 5 year old bobcat S175 because the bobcat broke too much. The mill snapped an axle on the JCB one hour after delivery. It had two boom arms in under six months. The pin for the base end of the tilt cyclinder broke almost daily. The JCB tech was on site minimum 4 days a week. In under one year it had $60,000 worth of warranty work. They ended up transferring to another mill, kept their old S175 and bought a S630. In a 1,000 hrs, the S630 has been flawless.

Bobcatdan said:

From my experience the JCB skidsteers are junk.

Click to expand...

We have only had experience with one at our shop. Ours was a 185 with 238.8 hours on it when we got it in Jan of 02. Aug. of 02 wiring shorted out behind cab requiring all new harness. No warranty for what was obviously an improper installed harness. After getting back from dealer "I" installed a holdown on harness to prevent it from rubbing on the frame behind cab where the original had shorted out. It's now 2013, 11 years later and no new melt downs of wiring. As I recall there was even a hole in frame next to harness for the clamp I installed.

We have a Case 1845C, 1989 vintage that this JCB was to replace, note I said we still have this Case? 11 years after it was to be retired! Case does break a chain now and then and has a problem these days blowing fuses on start up but if the two are sitting next to each other it would be rare for the JCB to be the first choice to be used.

I would love to be able to convince management to let me do a ground up rebuild on the Case. But then I would hate to let an operator run it, might scratch the paint.

Digdeep said:

I'm not really talking about the Robot in particular, but more about JCB's long presence in the North American market without much traction. They have the global market share lead in backhoes, but barely have a blip in market share here. I think this is directly associated with not having a strong dealer network focused on their product as the primary revenue generator.

I see much the same thing happening with the Wacker product in general. They have many dealers and sub good products, especially hand held, but the majority of their dealers already have prime lines such as Bobcat, Kubota, Deere, CNH, etc. overcoming that resistance will be extremely difficult for them just as it has been for JCB, a very successful company with lots of money to throw at the challenge.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree that WN has some challenges ahead to make this project a success. The first priority is to put out the best performing product that they can. I think WN will do that. Will it be perfect, no, but it already is very competent, and the fine tuning left to do will only build upon that. These machines will be able to go head to head with anything in their class and be very productive. It will not have the electronic wizardry that the D series has but, it will be a solid, productive machine, much like TK and Kubota in that sense.

I talked with a lot dealers during the unveiling, I was tasked with demoing the machine and then answering questions after the dealers had run it. Your right Digdeep in that many already carry something else. ASV, Deere and CNH seemed to be majority of the makes that were carried by the ones I spoke with. They all had their reasons for looking for alternatives and options. The stores carrying ASV would like a CTL for applications not suitable for the suspended undercarriage and for those stores it makes total sense. The WN dealers and their customers have been asking for a skid steer/CTL for sometime. This product is a result of that request. The fact that many of their dealers carry something else, I don't think is that big of deal (although there are plenty of other challenges). Many of these dealers like and want to do business with WN, that was very apparent during the unveiling. There is no doubt that WN has built a loyal following among their dealers and that will help move machines.

Digdeep said:

I'm not really talking about the Robot in particular, but more about JCB's long presence in the North American market without much traction. They have the global market share lead in backhoes, but barely have a blip in market share here. I think this is directly associated with not having a strong dealer network focused on their product as the primary revenue generator.

I see much the same thing happening with the Wacker product in general. They have many dealers and sub good products, especially hand held, but the majority of their dealers already have prime lines such as Bobcat, Kubota, Deere, CNH, etc. overcoming that resistance will be extremely difficult for them just as it has been for JCB, a very successful company with lots of money to throw at the challenge.

Click to expand...

Outside of Milwaukee JCB didn';t have much support. Ritchies was about it, but they are building a new store next to Bobcat Madison which should help them some.

There are a few farmers running their robots. A lot of people like there telehandlers, the ones I have ran I couldn't say much bad about but I don't spend enough time in telehandlers to be a good critic anyways. Outside of those two the only experience we have with JCB is with the Fastrac. What has hurt them with the Fastrac is again dealer support and the fact its almost too purpose built. Most people in WI have switched to Fendt because they have phenomenal support and probably the lowest failure rate in the industry. They are also much more well rounded. The Fastrac was designed to go fast, many people soon realized that extra 10mph wasn't worth having a tractor that was a pain for everything else. 34mph in a Fendt was plenty for most people since not many US implements are rated for high speeds anyways and there are some special operators out there that can compound issues at 42mph. The Fastrac's have had their share of gremlins that aggravated people too. This seems to happen with JCB. They use a lot of good off the shelf components generally but tying them all together is where the issues seem to come from.

I honestly didn't even know where the Wacker dealer was, we have a Wacker light tower but thats it. If WN is like any other German equipment OEM, they will have their machine figured out well before it is released. I agree that the market for the WN may be the stripped down get sh!t done market that Tak has been dominating along with Kubota trying to get a piece. If they come in with another 80k CTL like Cat or Bobcat its going to be tough. Cat and Bobcat will see no matter what because of the name, if WN builds a good CTL and gets a half way decent dealer network they could push themselves to the top of the smaller company offerings like Kubota, JCB, Mustang etc etc.

KSSS said:

I don't disagree that WN has some challenges ahead to make this project a success. The first priority is to put out the best performing product that they can. I think WN will do that. Will it be perfect, no, but it already is very competent, and the fine tuning left to do will only build upon that. These machines will be able to go head to head with anything in their class and be very productive. It will not have the electronic wizardry that the D series has but, it will be a solid, productive machine, much like TK and Kubota in that sense.

I talked with a lot dealers during the unveiling, I was tasked with demoing the machine and then answering questions after the dealers had run it. Your right Digdeep in that many already carry something else. ASV, Deere and CNH seemed to be majority of the makes that were carried by the ones I spoke with. They all had their reasons for looking for alternatives and options. The stores carrying ASV would like a CTL for applications not suitable for the suspended undercarriage and for those stores it makes total sense. The WN dealers and their customers have been asking for a skid steer/CTL for sometime. This product is a result of that request. The fact that many of their dealers carry something else, I don't think is that big of deal (although there are plenty of other challenges). Many of these dealers like and want to do business with WN, that was very apparent during the unveiling. There is no doubt that WN has built a loyal following among their dealers and that will help move machines.

Click to expand...

Well...you can count me as someone that wants to see what they've come up with. I don't wish failure on any OEM, and I'd like to see the product do well, but I still think it will be an uphill climb for them.

Digdeep said:

Well...you can count me as someone that wants to see what they've come up with. I don't wish failure on any OEM, and I'd like to see the product do well, but I still think it will be an uphill climb for them.

Click to expand...

Me too, I am far from brand specific. I change brands often. 10 Years ago I wanted all nice new Case IH tractors and combines. Then I drove a Fendt. I was sold on Fendt and I am still sold on Fendt tractors to this day and they are our tractor of choice. very nice. Claas has been my forage harvester preference for many years. However now that Fendt has entered that market I have re-evaluated my opinion. I would try the Fendt in a heartbeat and if I liked it better and service was good I would vote for the Fendt. I used to be diehard Volvo for wheel loaders and honestly if their service and support was even 50% of what Cat's is I would still cheer for them, but it isn't so Cat gets my vote now. 2 years ago I would've told you I wanted all old LS170 skid steers, today I'm all Cat on SSL's and it was nothing more than their service and support that initially convinced me to give them the time of day. I love the Duramax engine but honestly Ford and Ram have been ahead of the game interior wise.

Aside from being partial to German products, I am not very brand specific. I like finding the machine that suits its job the best. I am not a fan of a "universal" machine so to speak. Its like a multi tool IMO, jack of all trades master of none. However I do like machines that can excel in more areas than others such as the Fendt tractors. They are the jack of all trades masters of everything.

Anyone had any experience with these yet? I saw some on the dealer lot but haven't stopped by yet. From the road, they are a great looking machine.