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Who has the lowest TCO CAT D11 or Komatsu D475
- Thread starter Truck100
- Start date
Nige
Senior Member
I would also say D11 but with the caveat that it would depend to a certain extent exactly what work the tractor wa being asked to do.
kshansen
Senior Member
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- Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
Also are you looking at resale price when you are ready to replace this unit?
I have no idea of the market for used equipment of this size, not like a local landscape outfit would be towing one around with an F-250!
Nige
Senior Member
If you were factoring in any resale value then the calculations would come down heavily in favour of Cat. 2nd-hand Komatsu mining machines usually fetch something approaching scrap price in my expereince. However for mining kit a machine has generally been depreciated to zero on the books many years before the owners actually get shot of it. I mean, would you seriously be in the market for a D11/475 with 60-70,000 hours on it, even if the sales pitch said "one previous careful owner" ......??
John C.
Senior Member
What does it cost to rebuild a D11 or a 475. Can you even afford to rebuild a 475? How much time should you expect to get after rebuild before you need another? Nige is absolutely correct on the resale issue. I saw a major liquidation from a shut down coal mine a few years ago in this state. Scrap price would have been happily accepted. Most went for a lot less.
Nige
Senior Member
We were just setting out our plan for the D10s we run yesterday. We plan on rebuilding them at 16,500, 33,000, 49,500 and then send them to the great Knackers Yard in the sky at 66,000. A Rebuild (which includes a full Certified Power Train Rebuild) will typically cost around half the new price of a machine.
637's rebuild was a cheap one if it only came in at 750k, a new machine is the sunny side of 2 million. However I have no idea what was done for that money.
kshansen
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Nige,
Couple questions, How many hours a week do you run these D10's? I'm assuming they run a couple shifts a day or more.
Do your people do the "Certified Power Train Rebuilds" or does the dealer?
Hard to imagine a machine with 66,000 hours on the meter, but with good maintenance and a schedule of rebuilds like yours no reason it can't be done. Company I work for is going the other direction. Run till they drop then duct tape and zip tie together and keep going. As long as it will make the full shift before adding fluids it's good to go. Glad I only have a bit over 2 years till retirement.
Nige
Senior Member
Our machines run 24/7, so 6000 hours/year as an absolute minimum. Our target (very much Mine Ops efficiency dependent) is 7,000/year.
A Certified Power Train Rebuild is done by the Cat dealer. Somewhere here https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?34295-D5M-Blade-pivot/page2 I posted photos showing the job on a D10T. Right down to the frame and back planned for 24 working days IIRC and brought in under target. Price about 42% of a new machine. The job is guaranteed and in our case the main components all carry a 12 month warranty, the rest of the machine 6 months.
To digress, there is one stage above a CPT Rebuild, that is a Cat Certified Rebuild (CCR). In essence it's a CPT Rebuild on steroids and the machine is given a new Serial Number afterwards and the complete machine comes with an original factory warranty. That's 6k hours/1 year for the complete machine and 12k hours/2 years for Power Train components.
Our haul trucks (789) are planned for 100,000 hours and will likely go more than that, I'd say 120k. Even our 994's we are forecasting a 90,000 hour total life, and I hope to get 100+. Of course both of the foregoing numbers include intermediate CPT Rebuilds.
A Certified Power Train Rebuild is done by the Cat dealer. Somewhere here https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?34295-D5M-Blade-pivot/page2 I posted photos showing the job on a D10T. Right down to the frame and back planned for 24 working days IIRC and brought in under target. Price about 42% of a new machine. The job is guaranteed and in our case the main components all carry a 12 month warranty, the rest of the machine 6 months.
To digress, there is one stage above a CPT Rebuild, that is a Cat Certified Rebuild (CCR). In essence it's a CPT Rebuild on steroids and the machine is given a new Serial Number afterwards and the complete machine comes with an original factory warranty. That's 6k hours/1 year for the complete machine and 12k hours/2 years for Power Train components.
Our haul trucks (789) are planned for 100,000 hours and will likely go more than that, I'd say 120k. Even our 994's we are forecasting a 90,000 hour total life, and I hope to get 100+. Of course both of the foregoing numbers include intermediate CPT Rebuilds.
John C.
Senior Member
Here is a time lapse D11T rebuild done at the local dealer in our area. I don't have the cost info but I know it was done as a winter project and I was told it was the second frame up rebuild. I had it posted in another link. I was told the machine is now in Alaska.
http://www.viddler.com/v/cacc4087
http://www.viddler.com/v/cacc4087
Nige
Senior Member
That puts a totally different perspective on it. Track frame and undercarriage will come in somewhere around the $200k mark for a D11.
kshansen
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I can see where running on that kind of a schedule you also gain some life on equipment. Some would think that would be hard on a machine but I would say you almost never have a cold start over the life of a machine. Therefore problems with condensation and rust on internal parts would unheard of for the most part. Lately most of our main line equipment is lucky to break 1,000 hr a year and some second string machines lucky to see 500. Most will sit out in the cold for four months in the winter. I know the first oil sample on the engines in the spring will show high on iron due to rust on cylinder walls. Despite this we have a Komatsu WA600 with a KT1150 with 26,000+ hours that only last summer had heads off due to broken valve spring, nothing ever done below the heads since new in 1996.
The second half of your comment is the key but it also needs to be operated properly too.
http://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/RFI-Energy-Cat-Celebrate-Rare-100000-Hour-Milestone/14906/
kshansen
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Agree with the "proper operation" 100%. I have seen machines that had a single operator who took care of the little things on a daily basis that worked almost like new when sold. On the other hand see machines that are passed from location to location with different operators all the time and local management that only cares about getting their little job done and pass the problems to the next guy. No one cares about the machine and operators know this and abuse them to no end. I could start a thread on all the abused equipment I see, but afraid someone might figure out who I was talking about!
Nige
Senior Member
the highest hour machine I ever came across was a 785 Haul Truck with 142k on the meter ...........
Nige
Senior Member
your company obviously isn't running VIMS Guardian on your D11 then ..? We can nail down events right to the second they occured. No hiding place for operators .......
kshansen
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Reminds me of a story my dad told me of a guy who worked with him at the quarry when I was still a kid.
Seems a few times this stocking truck driver(#1) would call in sick and shortly after a different driver(#2) started driving the tuck the clutch would fail. Next day driver #1 would bitch about how driver #2 ruined the clutch. After this happened a couple times boss got smart. Driver #1 called in sick again, driver #2 went to get in truck boss said leave it sit. Next day driver #1 came in and started bitching that driver #2 had ruined another clutch. Boss said that's funny no one touched your truck yesterday. Clutches started lasting longer from that day on.