So I was hoping that someone could better describe to me the VICON system. I have a basic idea of what is going on there but what is the benefit? What are the cons? I have also heard there is a warm up process? Is this true and what is it? You will have to forgive me as the only experience I have on friction rigs is with Americans. Also I have heard lots of horror stories that 4100s are notorious for allowing the boom to slowly creep down (operator error I know the crane isn't doing it by itself, but how does this even happen? And so frequently with good operators?) also any other stories, knowledge and or advice about these cranes would be great! I'd love to see pictures of different operator station setups too, as the controls in the Americans I have run have never been the same in any two cranes haha. Thanks gents!
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VICON questions for you 4100W hands
- Thread starter BigIron25
- Start date
Big Iron
Well-Known Member
stole this from another forum, it is one of the best descriptions of the VICON systems i have read and saves a lot of typing
torque converters do not offer an infinite array of speed and torque ,the two run hand in hand.unlike the newer machines that have variable displacement pumps and motors in a hydrostatic system that allow you to have full line pull at an idle a converter system does not . a torque converter is basically a pump but it depends on engine rpm to deliver maximum power, like your car you gotta give it gas to make it go (link belt,American,bucyrus). the vicon system allows you to control the output of each torque converter with an outside source-direct lever and linkage(Johnson bar)or air cylinder fed by combination friction levers.imagine your car on the steepest hill and you had a lever in it that would allow you to stall the car on the hill without using the brakes and the engine running wide open,pull it back the car starts up the hill,let off it a little bit it stops, let off a little more and it starts backing down the hill.manitowoc vicon cranes depending on model could have 1,2 or 3 converters.i have been using this explanation for a long time trying to teach new apprentices.it blows their mind to see you pull a lever and the load goes up or down depending on the weight on the hook
torque converters do not offer an infinite array of speed and torque ,the two run hand in hand.unlike the newer machines that have variable displacement pumps and motors in a hydrostatic system that allow you to have full line pull at an idle a converter system does not . a torque converter is basically a pump but it depends on engine rpm to deliver maximum power, like your car you gotta give it gas to make it go (link belt,American,bucyrus). the vicon system allows you to control the output of each torque converter with an outside source-direct lever and linkage(Johnson bar)or air cylinder fed by combination friction levers.imagine your car on the steepest hill and you had a lever in it that would allow you to stall the car on the hill without using the brakes and the engine running wide open,pull it back the car starts up the hill,let off it a little bit it stops, let off a little more and it starts backing down the hill.manitowoc vicon cranes depending on model could have 1,2 or 3 converters.i have been using this explanation for a long time trying to teach new apprentices.it blows their mind to see you pull a lever and the load goes up or down depending on the weight on the hook
Operator4100
Well-Known Member
Hey, as far as warm up, all operators fire up their cranes before starting work or at least I do after checking everything out, that is per say the warm up process. a 4100's converter oil is plumbed into heat exchangers that cool the oil thru the radiator so when the engine gets warm the converter's oil is also. (Boom creep) had that happen once, the 4100's have a hydraulic boom hoist system connected to a worm gear, dang good setup, the problem I had was the actuator on the pump was slightly out of adjustment so no problem. these were the best cranes I've ever been on on, peacefull in the cab not as noisy as as the 4000's, and one of my likes was you could stand up in the cab without having to opening the door or getting out to stretch your legs. these new cranes are nice and all but give me a 4100 any day, wonderful machine. I believe the other guy explained the converter for you. the 4100's, 4000's, 3900,s are all different from the americans, linkbelts, bucyrus-erie. I had a picker operator tell me he just didnt understand how you pulled the hoist back to go up and then to go down you pulled the hoist back , I just smiled at him...
gostr8r
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Unlike the 4000W, with the 4100W’s VICON the hoist levers themselves are the levers that allow the torque to be applied to the clutches, which engage the drum surface. At about 6% engagement, [the first felt detent as you pull it back] there’s not enough torque to even lift the ball. The ball will lower slowly with the brake pedal off. Add some more stroke, pulling the hoist lever further back, or more rpm, for more torque, and the ball will stop and begin to go up. So at the same time that the stroke of the lever is affecting the amount of torque applied for lifting/lowering and or holding a load, so is the rpm too. For example, at say 25% stroke and at an idle a 4100W might lift a 2 yard bucket of mud, but at the same stroke and more rpm it’ll lift a lot more than that. Holding the rpm steady while feathering the hoist lever to various positions, gives you great control over the load as far as wether it goes up, down or stays still. I added a strip of duct tape to my consoles along side the slots between the 2 hoist levers. I marked along it the percentages of throw, from the first detent at 6% to 100%, and I learned as the work progressed how much stroke was needed to lift certain loads based on an rpm of my choosing. I found it easier to vary the hoist lever's movements more smoothly and more controlled than to vary the throttle speeds. A sudden rise or drop in rpm can really have a unfavorable affect on the load if you’re not ready to readjust the lever to compensate for that. In a lift I was sure about, as far as how much rpm was needed, I could set the throttle a bit above that mark, and then feather the hoist lever to make that load rise, or stop without holding it with the brakes, or lower slowly. For holding a load still for more than a few seconds the proper rpm, but using '100% stroke' is very helpful too, so you can use the free right hand to operate the boom lever. Many ways to work it to your personal preferences! For lowering loads a long distance I’ll set the rpm at a speed that will allow lowering at a safe speed with the lever at 'full 100% engagement', then use the right hand again to keep the boom point where I want it and know that the load lowering speed is steady and the clutch lever is not going to accidentally fly back to neutral.
Last edited:
dbl612
Well-Known Member
proper explanation and procedure. thats exactly how it works. incredibly operator friendly and versatile in operation. no brake wear or adjustment.
Blmreject
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4000w were great machines, but the early ones that had the VICON bar that had to be pulled to transfer power through the converter could be a handful. Holding that bar back made for a long day. Then anytime you needed some boom it would lock the boom and hoist together. I love them, but you sure earn your money.
The one thing I don't like is trying to find that exact spot you had the bar if you need a half inch down after sitting in one spot for a while.
Still take one over just about any new machine
Cletus
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Well this is a favorite topic for me. I love the VICON control. It was explained to me in 1982 by a great old crane operator named Al Fox. It was on a 1969 4000 that I ran for a few years back then. I have had a good career on Manitowocs because I understand the VICON system and use it the way it was designed to work. I rarely see an operator use it with constant rpm. Lots of brake squeal and throttling up and down, it drives me crazy! I explain it like Big Iron. The car on a hill thing. The 4100 is definitely a gentleman's machine.
I like to put clam controls on so the hoist levers stay in detent. It's an old habit from the 4000 and 3900 days of leaving the friction in for safety.I would rather run that 1969 4000 than bust my ass on a brand new ripper cat! The way the seat is in a 4000 you can have your reading material on your lap and no one is the wiser.
I like to put clam controls on so the hoist levers stay in detent. It's an old habit from the 4000 and 3900 days of leaving the friction in for safety.I would rather run that 1969 4000 than bust my ass on a brand new ripper cat! The way the seat is in a 4000 you can have your reading material on your lap and no one is the wiser.