Heating Cylinder Bolts (Case 580SE)

bowen · May 29, 2013

Service guy helping me remove the cylinders.
Large bolt inside the cylinder.
3/4" Impact wrench,

1" Impact wrench,

Snap on torque multiplier, busted 6" Wilton bench vice. $$$$$
Furious service guy...:cussing

I tried to get him to use a torch but he refused saying unless I had a new bolt he did NOT like heating the thing.
I took it to another shop that heated the bolt red hot, then after it cooled the thing came loose.
They claim to do this often because some have the red locktite installed and heat is required.

And both tell me they never put even the blue locktite back on there when replacing the bolt, just a 3/4" air tool.

So two questions.
A) Will heating the bolt really damage it or the piston?
B) Do you put locktite on when replacing the bolt?

alrman · May 29, 2013

Some may have a different opinion.....
A) Not if used sensibly + I use it on almost 90% of the cylinders I reseal
B) Always used + Never used an impact gun on such a bolt. Always done up by hand with 4' cheater pipe

REDDEATH · May 29, 2013

bowen said:
Service guy helping me remove the cylinders.
Large bolt inside the cylinder.
3/4" Impact wrench,
1" Impact wrench,
Snap on torque multiplier, busted 6" Wilton bench vice. $$$$$
Furious service guy...:cussing

I tried to get him to use a torch but he refused saying unless I had a new bolt he did NOT like heating the thing.
I took it to another shop that heated the bolt red hot, then after it cooled the thing came loose.
They claim to do this often because some have the red locktite installed and heat is required.

And both tell me they never put even the blue locktite back on there when replacing the bolt, just a 3/4" air tool.

So two questions.
A) Will heating the bolt really damage it or the piston?
B) Do you put locktite on when replacing the bolt?

View attachment 103295

Yes I do use loctite RED on all my cylinders so it don’t come apart in the cylinder but I like to be a overkill on my stuff.
I have always used a 1" impact but I start out going right which would be tighten the bolt then loosing the bolt . I do this 4 or 5 time then it comes right off on the 6 try maybe I am just lucky

REDDEATH · May 29, 2013

REDDEATH said:
Yes I do use loctite RED on all my cylinders so it don’t come apart in the cylinder but I like to be a overkill on my stuff.
I have always used a 1" impact but I start out going right which would be tighten the bolt then loosing the bolt . I do this 4 or 5 time then it comes right off on the 6 try maybe I am just lucky

I also use the tractor and the cylinder pin to hold the piston on a saw horse.

Delmer · May 29, 2013

Loctite lets go long before the bolt gets red hot. The heat needed to soften loctite and the heat needed to soften and shrink frozen bolts are completely different things.

d9gdon · May 29, 2013

Yes, I heat them and I use red Loctite to go back with it.

bowen · May 29, 2013

Wow. 4 replied that cause others to cuss.
I would hope that the blue stuff would hold OK.
This ole boy likes to work on Cat or John Deere stuff and he cusses almost everything on my Case.
He says stuff like "I been packing cylinders for 30 years and I ain't never used no locktite on them threads, and never had one to come loose!"

I have read on this forum where someone had the bolt inside to come out.
Alrman must be a burley rascal, to only use a pull bar. :beerchug

rust farmer · May 29, 2013

I think loc-tite is good insurance. You just have to remember to clean all the oil off of both sets of threads with brake clean or some sort of degreaser. I know that sounds like a no brainer but I have seen guys not clean the threads,goober some loc-tite on there and think that's good enough, then they wonder why they have problems down the road. We always use the red in our shop, it works good and doesn't take a lot of heat to get it to break loose. Some times we have used 680 green on some jobs, it is supposed to be able to fill a .015 gap. The 680 will come loose with heat also

cps · May 29, 2013

bowen said:
Wow. 4 replied that cause others to cuss.
I would hope that the blue stuff would hold OK.
This ole boy likes to work on Cat or John Deere stuff and he cusses almost everything on my Case.
He says stuff like "I been packing cylinders for 30 years and I ain't never used no locktite on them threads, and never had one to come loose!"

I have read on this forum where someone had the bolt inside to come out.
Alrman must be a burley rascal, to only use a pull bar. :beerchug

I Only use heat if completely necessary! Although i don't think a little in the right way does any harm! Also always use some sort of thread lock! Never had one come lose, and don't want to ether !

bowen · May 29, 2013

After seeing a cylinder shop work on these I think a large part is what you have to hold the other end.

The best I have seen is a saddle on a heavy table that duplicates what is on the hoe, except was heavier built.
They can (and do) use a 10 foot long cheater to loosen the bolts:yup

Another shop had a heavy built shop table with like 3/4" steel on the top.
They had a hole drilled down thru the table top, and a vertical pin/bolt arrangement to pin the rod to the table.
This place uses the air wrenches with heat and they do get them loose. (About $150 to rebuild a cylinder including the seal kit.)

Alrman says heat "sensibly" and I suppose this means NOT red or even orange.
Maybe you only need a small can torch but what I seen was a blow torch, without the high pressure.
One guys says to heat it and let the thing cool down until the next morning before loosening.

This dude using a vice and a torque multiplier chained to the back of his truck was asking for trouble.
It was not my vice he broke, but he took it straight to where he bought it and got a warranty replacement:jawdrop

jw3 · May 31, 2013

I'm with Airman, before I had air tools, I used a 24" breakover with a 3' cheater.

ScottAR · May 31, 2013

I use a cheapie MAPP plumber's torch to heat the thread locker and it works fine. Push the gland up where the heat doesn't melt the rubber bits and fire away.
Usually the oil on the rod will start off gassing and that's enough. I use a 3/4 drive breaker and a 6ft pipe. Also helps to rap on the pipe with a shop hammer.

d9gdon · Jun 1, 2013

The best way I've found to hold the rod end is to pin it in the drawbar of a D6 or D7. It won't squirm around then. Unless you use a 330 Cat as your cheater. I usually take a torch and make my own wrench out of 1" plate to mate with the 330 if it's out in the field a good ways.

bowen · Jun 1, 2013

One more thing to add to this discussion about the cylinder seal kits.
This guy does not like grease of any kind and he smears Go-Jo hand cleaner around the seal parts when reassembling the cylinders.
I just wonder how many approve/disapprove of this.
The instruction sheet does not mention any lubrication to reinsert the piston & gland.

mikebramel · Jun 1, 2013

ALWAYS lubricate so the seals are not nicked. Petroleum jelly, hydraulic oil, etc. Don't know about Go-Jo. I hope its not the kind with the abrasive in it. (back woods mechanic LOL)
Pretty much always loc tite the piston
Heating up the piston nut is normal to remove it
He needs a 1" Swench, more powerful than the 1" air, it amazed me every time I use it

Delmer · Jun 1, 2013

Silicone grease is the best thing for seals. Usually it will get rinsed off with oil, but in some places it will stay on the seal to protect it. Not so sure about the solvents in hand cleaner?

greggn · Jun 1, 2013

bowen said:
One more thing to add to this discussion about the cylinder seal kits.
This guy does not like grease of any kind and he smears Go-Jo hand cleaner around the seal parts when reassembling the cylinders.
I just wonder how many approve/disapprove of this.
The instruction sheet does not mention any lubrication to reinsert the piston & gland.

Doesn't Go-Jo contain pumice ??

bowen · Jun 2, 2013

greggn said:
Doesn't Go-Jo contain pumice ??

No sand, at least in the kind he uses.
But I do not know what else is in it.
It was handy for him. He smears it around the seals and then just cleans his hands with a rag. :beatsme

lantraxco · Jun 2, 2013

"SWENCH" Hey now, that's something I hadn't seen yet! I want one/several! :scool

CaptainAnalyzer · Jul 23, 2015

The Swench is a different animal.

Heating Cylinder Bolts (Case 580SE)

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