Advice on John Deere 450G

I am currently interested in purchasing a 1994 John Deere 450G. Anyone out there have any negatives on this machine? Or advice on maybe certain things to check out or look for? It is a widetrack with a sixway blade everything on it looks to be in good shape and well taken care of and operates great.

Deere 450G

We have one of these - it has done right by us. Another one around the corner and it does OK by him.

Will your machine have rippers and a cab? Did the Track check out OK considering the hours?

There may be a variation in the series within the G model designation, not sure what this has to do with anything. Mine is a 98 and it says series iv on the side. We dont have a cab and we have standard tracks. We have two pedals, a decel and a brake, the track clutch and brakes are on the levers. To me, this is nice since the feet can move around.

Sometimes it smokes blue a little when it starts, the next time or two it wont. Some hoses had to be replaced and a fitting on the front cracked. The radiator weeped and had to be pulled and sent to the shop.

The underbelly was full when we got it but we learned how to keep that cleaned out.

Undercarriage looks good and it has an open cab but screened in. Clutch is on the floor along with brake pedals. I was curious about the direct drive transmission instead of the torque converter and how they compare and hold up.?

The one I have does not have a clutch - am not sure how the clutch works, eg is it a disc or a torque converter override, etc? I make sure to push in first gear and rarely push in second and think this may help out by preventing the heating from a torque converter, but then we were told it has a lock up... sorry, not sure about any of this at all.

Oceanbob, (and this may apply to Jrobe44, too) I may be completely wrong but believe that the transmission is similar to my 650G. If the same, you have a Power Shift direct drive with pedals instead of levers. The G model Power Shift can have a torque converter or not have torque converter. Direct Drive means no torque converter. You will have an 'inching' pedal on the left and a decelerate petal on the right, steering pedals in the middle, of course. The inching pedal is for making small deliberate moves, and to stop the dozer if you get up against an immovable object (since there's no torque converter to stall). The inching pedal acts like a clutch, but dumps hydraulic pressure to the tranny disc pack. I really like mine.

Bob

Yea thats the way this dozer im looking at is set up so uve had no problems with the direct drive any ups or downs?

Not sure about the direct drive, I saw this in my manual and always wondered how this would be operated....it would seem this would help with hydraulic flow to the blade etc while keeping the machine speed slow. This is an optional item on the 450G literature. Since I don't have one of these I have no idea how it is used. You'll have to defer to Tennmogger. The dealer rep that I confer with recalls no ill word on either of these variations as far as repairs etc. Seems like it is something that could be useful.
I did read a word about using the decel pedal in lieu of the inching pedal: it appears the decel pedal if pushed all the way declutches the trans. This feature is not that way on my model which I guess is a torque converter model.

I was curiuos about that too if i would have to push in the clutch or inching pedal or just throw it out of gear to stop it

The direct drive is supposed to push harder than through a torque converter. A hard push will load the engine to capacity, and the inching pedal is there to decouple the transmission before the engine stalls. Or, just downshift, or go into reverse, lift blade, etc.

As for driving technique (and this info is from several non-official sources), "officially", when ready to shift, just shift. The transmission is made to handle even full throttle, full power shifting. The hydraulics manage the clutching and shifting. That impresses me as to the toughness and engineering of the system, but I STILL decelerate to shift and occasionally even apply the inching pedal as for when shifting under load. Right or wrong, that seems the careful way to handle the shifts and is no doubt easier on the clutches. My dealer agrees, says he always decelerates, too.

Shifting under power is certainly faster. A contractor under time constraints could see (over a day, week, month) many minutes wasted to decelerate, shift, 'recelerate', and continue. I have the time to waste and like to baby the equipment.

As for problems, I've read that the hydraulic pump can wear out of tolerance eventually. That can result in the pump losing prime after the dozer sits a long time. The previous owner of my dozer told me that. I have had that happen a couple of times when the dozer sat for weeks. Start the engine, take off brake, and the warning light comes on. It has always gone off again in a few seconds. BTW, my dozer shows 2500 hours so should not be worn out. The PO told me to always park with the rear end a little higher and the pump will never loose prime.

Bob

Thanks for all the info guys. The owner of the dozer says hes got some land that i can work the dozer on for however long i want before i purchase it so im gonna try it out real good this weekend.

Tennmogger, thanks for the info. I have been around farming and tractors all my life, but bought my first dozer last week. It is a JD 450G, about a '89 model, with Direct Drive. I used it for an hour Saturday, and for an hour today, pushing and burning brush. Wow! Beats the heck out of a 48 hp JD 4wd tractor!!
Your technique comments are helpful. My land is not flat, so when I am shifting from F to R, or vice-versa, I tend to want to use the left pedal as a clutch, the right pedal to power down, but then have to use the brake to keep from rolling. Mainly, I am like you, and want to use my equipment with care so that it will last. Any advice on this scenario?
Kevin

A question: When operating a direct drive with the three pedals, is the following correct?
The right pedal (decel pedal) when pushed all the way to the floor has a detent and if pushed past this point, puts the machine in neutral and it will freewheel?
If this is true, then (maybe) a person could slow the machine by pressing the decel and then apply the brake while the trans goes into neutral from the continued pressing of the decel pedal, then shift the trans F/R or R/F as applicable and somehow repeat the process?
Have no clue, just wondering how this three pedal setup could be operated and my manual gave me the info about the decel pedal and the detent.

I'm still learning 'right' method, too, and open to suggestions. I think you guys are using the 'inching' pedal more than I do. Oceanobob, your methods sound good to me. Most of the time I just decel and shift unless to prevent a stall, or in a tight situation. I do not think the Decel pedal puts the 650G trans into Neutral. But, now that you mention it I do remember reading that somewhere. Maybe mine is not adjusted correctly?

I'm currently clearing a dense wooded area full of 10 year old undergrowth. There's a lot of volume of material. All that stuff is going into a deep ravine, maybe 10 ft deep on the sides. You can bet I am ready on the inching pedal and brakes when I approach that dropoff. I need to push until the dozer seems to have 45 degree nose down, then back out.

Oh, that brings up another issue with my 650G. After one of those stand-on-nose high pucker events (well, it seems higher tilt than it is), the left brake seems to be less effective than before. It resumes normal operation almost immediately when level again. I'm assuming the change in braking is due to its being inundated with oil when nose down, but that's just a guess. The right brake does not change, maybe a slight difference in how the brakes are adjusted. Anybody have any thoughts on that?

Bob

Teenmogger: you mentioned the brake. "During the event of standing the tractor on its nose, the left brake seems like it has less power, but then when the machine is restored to level, the break feels just fine". Is this a correct restatement?
Please don't take offense, as this business of writing exactly reminds me of my English composition teacher giving me a good grade on grammar and spelling, then hammering me on prose and context.

Oh, we read about the decel pedal on direct drive in the 450/550/650G owners manual. I could copy the page and scan it and pm you....it doesnt say how to adjust it, that could very well be in the manual. My machine has only the brake and the decel so when I go towards the edge, I only have to coordinate two pedals.
My real worry is shifting it into R, but actually not realizing I didn't, and the machine goes forward when I expect it to go back. I think I read about that happening to someone on HEF and they stuck their machine into some kind of a pit or similar, smacked their head....cant recall. But it made me see that this could indeed happen to me!

I have a 550g btw. The important thing to remember with a direct drive is that decel pedal does not stop travel. So if your clipping thru the woods in 3rd, and a stick enters the cab, or operator area, just hitting the decel doesn't stop travel. You must also step on inching pedal or select neutral. Power wise the direct drive system is awesome, and they are easy on fuel. Mine is a pedal steer, at first I wasn't crazy about it, but now that ive had it, its nice, not as nice as a newer hydro, but I can live with it.

Oceanobob, correct restatement except: I used the word brake not break, and the left brake is perfectly fine going into the hole but is less effective after resuming level, until used a few times. I know that sounds odd.

Yes, I have also failed to select the correct direction if I use the inching pedal (not so often as my hours build up). Luckily, if using the decel pedal the lack of correct action is immediately apparent because like stumpjumper says, our machines do not go into neutral when the decel pedal is depressed.

It's good to be able to discuss the small things not in the manual!

Bob

Just saw this old post had had a question. Can you use the "inch" pedal to much? I use it all the time as a clutch for grubbing and wanting to make sure I'm not messing it up.