buying advice needed

Hi all. I have searched this forum extensively and found a lot of valuable information. I was hoping to get some more advice based on my specific situation.

I own a 500+ acre property and am looking to improve some of its parts. Specifically, I would like to mainly level and grade some areas (including where gravel was harvested years ago and medium hills were left behind), clear brush (leaving nice trees behind), create flat pads for fences and buildings, maintain brush free treed areas, put in fences, plant trees, etc. I have a 40+ hp tractor already which is used mainly for mowing of large flat areas.

I am strongly considering the purchase of a compact track loader. Specifically I am considering to purchase the JD 333d ctl. Do you think this is the correct machine for the tasks mentioned? I have also read many positive reviews of the takeuchi machines. I previously thought about purchasing a used small dozer (jd450) but I think its versatility is limited and I think I can probably level/grade equally well with the large ctl, although at a slower pace. Can you please chime in on whether you think the ctl is the right type of machine and if yes, which specific brand/model would you recommend?

All of your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

M

A CTL could be a good decision for you, but you have to be prepared to purchase tracks and conduct undercarriage maintance. Because your not making any money with your machine, those costs can be painful. If you have the money to spend on maintance for the machine while you conduct your projects than its really not an issue. Just know that tires cost a lot less to run, while its true that they are not as productive in some applications as tracks, they dont have the upkeep costs either. Being a homeowner conducting your own projects, productivity is not the issue it is for a contractor. I have both wheeled and a CTL. The CTL is clearly the better machine for grading and pushing large amounts of material. Moving the material left over from the gravel pit might be a good CTL project but other than that it appears that the rest of your projects could be done with a wheeled machine. You could rent a dozer to complete that task which would be better than the CTL anyway.


As to what color machine, that is largely up to you and who you want to deal with. I demo a couple and see what fits you best. A radial lift machine might be better suited for your application since you dont appear to be doing any truck loading.
This would be the Takeuchi machines, CAT 279C, CASE TR320, and BobcatT-250

I have owned an operated bobcats for nearly 40 years. I owned backhoes track loader tractors with box blades motor grader and in my opinion if i had to own one machine to everything i would own a CTL. The versatility and convience is far greater. You clear land dig ditches grade tote stuff with it amd can move it with a pickup truck with a $1500.00 trailer. Get a radial lift platform made for digging. If i was going to buy a new one i would consider a CAT because of the parts availability. Or a a Bobcat. I hear very good things about the takenuki. It depends iwn how much you wanr to spend. If you got a lot of clearing find one with the forestry cab. If not make sure tou get a factory lexan door so yiu want wind uo with a 3 inch tree limb stuck in your belly.

update.

I have a demo of jd 333d and takeuchi 250 set-up. The price is 2K less for the takeuchi. The problem is that the nearest tak dealer is 2 hrs away, while the jd dealership is 10 mins away. I read a lot of positives about the tak machine but am afraid of dealing with dealer distance. Any advice?

Same here in Canada, or Ontario, the tac dealers are too far away.
you want your dealer to be close by.
If you like the Deere CTL go for it, It tryed one and did not like it at all. and I own a large JD loader,
and they are 10 mins away.
I would sugest looking at the TR270 Case, from what you stated, the Case TR320 Will be too much machine
The 2 are basicly the same cab (very nice inside) E/H controls heat /air radio any type seat you want, lots of power,and comfort.
The TR320 on the other hand may be the machine for you if you want it all, but they are a big machine and more weight to trailer than the TR270...try the Case out... Its a super nice CTL.

Don't forget to get the 2 sp! I have 700ac. and some times I'll trailer it (on the property). With a single speed that would be most of the time. With 500 ac. you have the same consideration. I'm a tire guy that when it get's sloppy, I put on the OTT's. In my experiance a OTT will out push a CTL in prolly close to all conditions, but for fine grading you can't beat the stabill platform of a CTL. Never been to TX, (but want to) and your soil conditions are not first hand familiar to me but I've heard that there is a lot of sand & nasty thorns in TX that may disqualify my *experiance for your local situation. One thing I did that I think would apply to you is to go big. If you are not dragging it through town from job to job, you'll never regret the biggest, meanest, digginest machine you can afford! You'll still push it to it's limits.

* in dry sand, I can barely drive through it let alond work with my 5 ton Gehl (tires only), almost normal with the OTT's. Good luck!

Tak is bullet proof, I know a few people that had Deere and had a lot of electrical issues

I recently bought a New Holland L220 (60 hp, medium frame, vertical lift) with Camoplast rubber OTT's. I don't have near as much property as you, & flotation was a issue. I seriously looked at New Holland, Case, JD, Cat, Terex (ASV) & JCB, all in wheeled & tracked. I decided against a CTL because of cost & maintenance. The NH & Case have the best full (heat, a/c) conventional cab in terms of visibility, room, etc. I think. They are made in the same factory in Kansas, & are the same except for: Case has back corners even on it's vertical lifts, Case has built-in side lights, Case has battery disconnect std., & color.

Since I have an excavator, digging with my SSL wasn't so much of an issue, so I went with vertical lift for ease of augering someday. But if digging & pushing are the issue, then go radial lift, & get the biggest SSL/CTL you can afford. I would pick Case over JD, hands down. I don't think the JD cab is as good & the specs are mediocre.

If you want the ultimate in traction, with lower maintenance than a CTL, then I would consider steel OTT over the largest tire that would fit on your SSL. The large diameter front wheel/OTT will let you crawl over objects much easier than the smaller front wheel/track diameter on any CTL, & the steel tracks should be rebuildable in sections & much tougher than any rubber CTL track. The ride will be easier, with steel over rubber tires, rather than rubber tracks over steel rollers. The Cadilac track is probably McLaren, but there are others.

IMO the Cat cabs were not as nice as JD, NH & Case. The Terex/ASV cabs are the worst, but those machines have the best ground clearance at about 12". All the rest run about 7 to 8". The JCB/Volvo machines are single arm, & have by far the most spacious cab, with the best visibility, & side entrance. But, you can't put OTT's on a JCB/Volvo because of the side entrance, so you're limited to their CTL.

Attached are 2 photos of my NH L220...

You need to start with the basics. New or used. If used, machine, condition and any mechanical history along with service records are greatly helpful. Also, beware of new paint. A CIL overhaul can cover a lot of sins underneath. Last but not least, consider dealer support. The best machine is only as good as support. The next item is the bucket. There are all kinds of bucket styles available and in my estimation, the bucket is 50% of machine productivity. You mentioned gravel piles - gravel can be really tough on tracks and undercarriage. There are all kinds of tire and OTT options available for wheeled skidsteers, and I know maintenance costs will be much less on a wheel machine. Depending on your expectations of finished grade, the track machine will do a better job.
My suggestion - find what is available in your area and demo several machines whether new or used. Once you have a machine, rent different buckets / attachments and see what works best for your application. Homework now will save headaches later.

StumpyWally said:

The NH & Case have the best full (heat, a/c) conventional cab in terms of visibility, room, etc. I think.

IMO the Cat cabs were not as nice as JD, NH & Case.

Click to expand...

I am guessing you tried a B series Cat? Most of the guys here miss the NH cabs or prefer the C series cab. The B's are cozy but most of all they are very dark. There isn't much visibility and none of the windows seem to stay clean on the outside. The interiors get dirty quick due to no pressurization however the price reflects this and you get what you pay for. The design on that cab hasn't changed much since the very first SSL they made. The one thing that is nicer with the B's is a big open floor. No foot controls in the way which makes it nice. Removeable floor mat makes cleaning easy. The C series cab is very nice, very bright inside and very comfortable, quiet and stays clean. I like how the floor and everything is a sealed tight unit and flips up together.

I will say though. The NH design still has the best visibility. I worry about how much they are sacrificing to keep it though, the new booms seem even sloppier than the older ones. The cab had a lot of arm room to the sides compared to the C series cab, but headroom/front to back was similar. One thing I liked better on the Cat was that you walked"up" into the seat. The floor is only a 6" step. no more turning and plopping into the seat, however the thing is tall. 84" is a very big for some areas. The NH's have always been the shortest and continue to be to this day.


As much as I hated our L220, which everyone is probably sick of hearing about by now. I will say that from the looks of what you intend to do with it, it should serve you well. As long as you have good support it will work out well for you. My opinions of ours in other threads are due to what I expect out of them. With your machine it will be yours and you running it which should help it last a long time.

I am guessing you tried a B series Cat? Most of the guys here miss the NH cabs or prefer the C series cab. The B's are cozy but most of all they are very dark. There isn't much visibility and none of the windows seem to stay clean on the outside. The interiors get dirty quick due to no pressurization however the price reflects this and you get what you pay for. The design on that cab hasn't changed much since the very first SSL they made. The one thing that is nicer with the B's is a big open floor. No foot controls in the way which makes it nice. Removeable floor mat makes cleaning easy. The C series cab is very nice, very bright inside and very comfortable, quiet and stays clean. I like how the floor and everything is a sealed tight unit and flips up together.

Click to expand...

Yes, I drove a Cat 226B Series 3 & a Cat 247B Series 3 & looked at other B models. There were no C series to look at. But I found the floor on the B's to be cramped & not as flat as on the NH/Case. My NH L220 floor is the flattest I found, the only foot pedal being the foot throttle. And my floor is sealed tight to the cab & flips up with the cab. And there is a bolt-on cleanout plate on the bottom front of the cab.

The floor is only a 6" step. no more turning and plopping into the seat, however the thing is tall. 84" is a very big for some areas. The NH's have always been the shortest and continue to be to this day.

Click to expand...

There is some "plopping" into the seat with my NH, but at least I'm not bumping into the windshield washer reservoir on the back of the door like I was on the Cats. And yes, my NH is only about 78" tall, which for me is a plus for tree & branch clearance.

And luckily, I do have good NH support from Capital Tractor, an Ag & CE dealer. The local Cat dealer is even closer, but much larger (Milton Cat), & being a small owner/operator I probably would have become 'lost' in their organization. Even when I was demoing/pricing machines, the Cat dealer virtually refused to quote me on a unit ordered to my specs...they wanted to sell me one of their stock units ordered to their/contractor specs. Even if I had liked their machines, that was a real turnoff.

Am I missing something with the EH controls in these machines? I don't see how the cab would be different on it but with ours the floor is not sealed to the cab it is part of the frame.

Our L220 had foot controls. I didn't know Nh got rid of them with EH controls. Bobcat doesn't have a flat floor with EH.

Cat was like that to us awhile back. They changed now and our dealer support is good. That may be the most important part of any skid steer. They all work.

You think the NH "pocket window" is less in the way than the washer reservoir on the Cats? I tripped and feel on myself many times trying to get in and out in a hurry. I miss the NH steps on the old machines. Much nicer to get into that our Cats and that L220 we had.

DurallyMax:

My mistake...I double checked my cab on my NH220 & you're right...the cab floor in front of the seat is bolted to the frame & does NOT flip up with the cab.

I also agree that the Bobcats, even with EH controls & no foot pedals, have a very uneven floor, with wells that I kept getting my feet stuck in & my feet felt very cramped.

The NH "pocket window" is on the lower right of the cab (it doesn't move with the door), & gives visibility where the door is notched to clear the bucket cylinder when opening (see the photo I posted earlier). It's not in the way at all, unlike the black windshield washer fluid tank mounted on the lower right of the Cat door. I felt that was always in the way, both as I got in & out, & as something that blocked my normal visibility.

As for tripping & falling when getting in & out, all SSL/CTL's are BAD, except the side entry JCB. I feel my NH is as good, if not better than most, primarily because of the flatter floor. I work alone, so I'm in & out of the cab a lot, & it's still the one operation with my SSL that I don't like. But I found myself falling & getting hung up more in the Cat cab than in my NH.

Even though I ended up buying my NHL220, & I like it a lot, it's not perfect, & I still wish that I didn't have to make the tradeoffs I did. For me, the choices out there came down to:

• Best cab & access - JCB side entry (one of a kind)
• Best on grass, wet ground & snow - Terex/ASV CTL with green turf tracks (one of a kind)
• Best ground clearance - Terex/ASV CTL (by far)
• Best specs in 60 HP machine - NH, Case & Cat
• Lowest maintenance tracks - Any SSL with over-the-tire tracks
• Worst cab - Terex/ASV (by far)
• Boom problems - JCB
• Best dealer relationship - New Holland

So, dealer aside, my ideal would have been a side-entry JCB with no boom problems, with the suspension undercarriage/turf tracks & clearance of an ASV, all with decent specs. I'm dreamin'...