buying worn out machine for small farm

currently on our family farm we have an Iseki tractor and a case skid steer
we are looking at expanding the fleet as such
the next machine we are looking at is an excavator in the 30-50 class (3-5ton)

what are your opinions towards buying a 3500hr+ machine in need of minor repairs like pins and bushes and a leaky gasket or 2?

cheers learner

Best thing to do mate is stay away from EX hire machines. Look for something which has had minimal operators/owners etc..so obviously a machine with one owner/operator is ideal. 3500hours on any small digger isn't too bad depending on the type of work it has done. Eg..demolition, rock breaking etc generally rings bells that a machine has had a hard life. However if a machine has been properly maintained and treated with respect then it still has plenty of life. General things to look out for are cracks in the welds on the arm, particularly where the dipper arm is connected to the main boom and where the main boom connects to the house. A good clean engine bay, with that many hours its not uncommon to have a bit of weeping at hose fittings etc here and there but nothing that looks major.. Service History. It's hard to hide massive scratches in arms, counterweights etc so any major damage is a tell tail sign it's been treated like a 2 dollar taiwanese hooker. Smooth operation at half throttle and full throttle and minimal pin movement is an obvious one.

I agree with Ryan...made some good points. I did buy a machine similar to what you had in mind. On an mini-ex, there are a lot of pins/bushing/seals, and fixing them is no small feat (costs a pretty penny - $1200 for pins/bushing on bucket/arm link alone). At least one can do them at your leisure. All the weeping and small leaks I found were due to loosened hoses, nuts etc. Little machines get shaken a bit.

Yeah, I'd be worried about cracks too. Smoke free engine, and strong pump and hyd motors (2 drive, swivel) are what would concern me after checking for structural issues. I'd recommend a cab, not canopy and a thumb if you can afford it.

Tracks can set one back $1500, complete rollers/idlers can be over $2000.

Have looked at a couple of diggers varying in hours from 3500-5000
Common problems with them are needing the arm repinned and bushed
The thing that changes it all is that one machine may need tracks and the other has near new tracks and worn sprockets the next may have both worn out or both in good nick the price seems to cater for that and in the end most will be of similar price

As for options cab/canopy does not matter greatly as it would only see a hundred hours or so a year
Thumbs are not very common at all round here so that is a hard one to get
The problem seems to be finding a machine with good buckets most of them appear to be very badly worn

Cheers learner

The Learner said:

Have looked at a couple of diggers varying in hours from 3500-5000
Common problems with them are needing the arm repinned and bushed
The thing that changes it all is that one machine may need tracks and the other has near new tracks and worn sprockets the next may have both worn out or both in good nick the price seems to cater for that and in the end most will be of similar price

As for options cab/canopy does not matter greatly as it would only see a hundred hours or so a year
Thumbs are not very common at all round here so that is a hard one to get
The problem seems to be finding a machine with good buckets most of them appear to be very badly worn

Cheers learner

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SE Aussie? No rocks or trees to pick up? A thumb may not be used around your parts, but where i am, it is mandatory...no idea how one can go without...lol
My cab really makes a difference...as a kid, I used to sit on an open cab JD, harrowing/rock picking wheat fields in Saskatchewan. I'm so much older now, and having heat and AC makes things so much more enjoyable, not to mention less noise, and fumes/dust. No cab or canopy makes you want to finish ASAP, whereas a cab you can lose yourself and time flies. A 100hrs is a lot of time in a mini. I put in about 300hrs last year, and I felt every hour.

Can usually find decent buckets for $500-$1000 at dealer.

Effort wise, swapping out tracks is easy, as is idler unit (slide in)...rollers more work and sprockets the most.

Try to get a machine with a dealer or parts dealer nearby...long distant relationships with parts dealer sucks. One time, I got 50% wrong items on an order...even with me giving them my serial number. Heck, I even sent them pictures to match up...

What type of material do you drive in?

I understand what you are saying with the thumb but they just aren't around

We live about 20-25 minutes from every dealer except cat and tak

To add about myself I am a apprentice diesel mechanic at Clark eq which is the bobcat/doosan dealer so I do know how simple the changing of parts is im just trying to work out which machine best suits the use it will encounter and who better to ask than the guys with tens of thousands of hours on the equipment

Well, you sound more mechanically inclined than I ever will be...lol
Ten of thousands of hours...not me.
What are you planning use it for on the farm?
I am a part time ex user, both personal and odd jobs (amazing how many neighbors look you up). I like mine (331 Bob) because it is light enough (almost 4ton with cab) to haul with a Dodge 250 and 14k dump trailer...anything heavier and it means trailer and truck have to be a step up. That being said, if I didn't have to move it, I'd have gone with a 5ton version. That little extra weight makes a difference. The 331 can lift over the tipping point, but if it had more weight...
Mine excels at brush/small trees (we have alders which are tree weeds) clearing...better than most because it is quick. Digging soft soils is no problem too. Good for rock stacking (walls) with boulders up to a ton. Reach isn't great...a few more feet would make a big difference. I cleared my virgin property with it...2 acres of 40-60ft firs. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90546471@N04/8408997903/in/photostream/
Doing jobs, I mostly do site prep for levelling, ditching and retaining walls.

planned use will be keeping about 600 meters of creek clean, keeping black berries at bay and odd jobs for friends and family
as for movement we borrow a 8 ton truck for moving the skid steer and a bigger tractor when we use it
so weight class is chosen by usefulness vs compactness not limited by our means of transport
no point buying a 1 tonner cause it fits in the house
same as buying an 8 tonner because it has big capacity buckets

we are after that happy medium

and the property is mostly sand with a very small amount of clay

Your mention of sandy soil is probably why decent used buckets, and tight pins are in short supply. My situation is similar to yours. I am a retired toolmaker/mold maker with 80 acres that has not had drainage work in nearly sixty years. The ground here is yellow clay, with a touch of sand further down. As has been mentioned, try to find a model/brand machine that is not going to be a real pain when it comes time to buy parts. I am trying to fix (Tak TB035)a little more than is needed each time, to work toward a machine that you can roll over when you are done. Can your employer help point you to a decent trade in that may need some of your talents, yet keep you from being well known in the local machine shops? Good luck.
Regards,
Bob

yeah pins can be fixed as needed
staying out of the manufacturers workshop sounds a good idea
i was wondering if there are any certain machines to stay away from, whether a model known for low power or a machine that has a habit of breaking the expensive parts
for example are Kobelco sk30sr's a reliable machine do they have enough power for there size what are peoples experiences with them?

G'day - not an expert but also a learner - so here is my 5c worth.
You can see my digger be search on MX45.

Purchased an MX45 Mitsubishi (grey market) from supplier on gold coast. Cost about $15K GST included - supposed to have 4500hrs on it but could not read screen - perspex clouded - dealer tried to stop deal but already paid??? Turns out it has 2500hrs on it and worth more - they must have read that after I bought - force their hand - told them not to sell 'my machine'! Anyway I had to clear a creek bed many times over and dig many hundreds of meters through clay/light rock etc and lay in elec cable/septic trench/etc. I could get no support from Cat who bought out Mitsu Excavators - probably political - but I also have not needed to get anything other than generic available parts eg fuel filters, air filters, hydraulic filters. I have broken the light and horn - just 12v auto parts, broken a hydraulic hose - just when I was doing the last seven meters of my second attempt at replacing all my water supply line (we are on acres) - Christmas day last. Fortunately found hydraulics guy open Boxing Day and got generic hose re-useable fitting. Whenever I have needed a part that was said not to be available or extortionate price I have dug until I found a substitute or had an engineer make one for me (or more). Mine has the offset arm and that has been indispensable in digging trenches straight while sitting to the side of the trench on a hill. I lose reach because of the extra weight on the arm but you have to choose what matters most to you. I dont have a thumb - I manage - there are mechanical thumbs advertised down your way from time to time for about $1200 - import from states. I have three buckets but manual pins only to attach - if you get a choice get some sort of quick change hitch - save a lot of back ache. Mine did not come with service history but had a blown radiator but not below a workable water level. Part of deal was new radiator, full service, etc. Fuel bowl was full of diesel bug - so machine had been ignored but otherwise I took the risk as everythign else seemed serviceable and OK. I had the compression tested - fell within specs and the machine touch wood has not disappointed me and has been worth the money. I can only suggest look around - decent machine do come up. Do check the pins and bushes - a little bit of movement you can live with. Good luck.

Regards, MX45.

i have seen your machine thru a google search
not a bad digger but we would prefer the single pivot boom for the longer reach and lighter machine weight
http://www.justauto.com.au/justheav...search_details_highest_price=&item_position=6
looking at something similar to this one

cheers learner

The Learner said:

i have seen your machine thru a google search
not a bad digger but we would prefer the single pivot boom for the longer reach and lighter machine weight
http://www.justauto.com.au/justheav...search_details_highest_price=&item_position=6
looking at something similar to this one

cheers learner

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We have one in our hood that was for sale...didn't look as clean as the one you posted. Guess the climate down there is kinder to machines. Those hrs are a tad high, but if the guy can show receipts for repairs...
At least one bucket looks good, albeit, that is a large bucket for the machine. Tracks look good from afar.
I could see you getting your money back if you decided to flip it down the road (my litmus test for value), provided everything was in working order.
Find out what year the machine is?

MX45 said:

I could get no support from Cat who bought out Mitsu Excavators - probably political -

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You won't either. Cat has no interest in supporting mitsubishi products or grey market imports. Mostly the dealer will delight in saying "heres the price you pay for trying to be a cheapskate". Not saying I agree with them, but a fact of life.
Be careful buying an import machine as some dealers are totally unscrupulous. When buying my my skid steer a couple of years ago, I found what I thought was a lovely 1845C, low hours, new tyres and a real sweet machine in pictures at least. Upon asking a few questions I discovered that the machine was not running due to the head being removed because "we think it has a stuck valve, but if you like the rest of the machine and buy it, we'll fix it up real quick."
For info, that dealer was a Vietnamese "gentleman" whose yard was in Victoria.
A better option is a locally delivered machine if you can find one as the bush telegraph will often tell many tales of the machine's history that the seller or dealer will not.

Yes Karl - risky business buying second hand - in the end with low dollars that is the only choice I could make. I bought my skid steer from an auction - guy had gone into receivership - has worked out OK - normal fixes on Bobcat so far but probably paid too much. Bought a Massey 3090 Tractor from local dealer with 11000 hrs and with warranty - things went wrong right from the start and pretty soon warranty was not fulfilled - off to Fair Trading and got most of the waranty repair monies - dealer in town has since failed - no surprise - good tractor but just driven down - after much basic service now good and engineering repairs. Bought a Case CS75 from private seller with about 1000hrs on it - paid lots but has not disappointed - some failed original parts but nothing could not be fixed - good purchase. So to Learner you can get caught many ways - the Kobelco you are looking at I know nothing about but saw a Kubota similar with less hours and not much more money a while ago. Price on Kobelco I cant comment on as bought mine years ago and dont know the market. Yep - reach on mine is a pain and at times I wish I could reach a whole lot further but I work within its abilities and probably a good thing as it is within my limits. Good luck.

MX45

OH - that dealer down your way - I once travelled to look at his machinery - good money it seemed for machinery that was very doubtful - bad attitude - I stayed away.

MX45

Worn out

Just thought I'd add a bit here as I've purchased a "worn out" machine as well. I have a 1988 Bobcat T-100 with 3900 hrs. I purchased it for short money, $3200 (USD), but have had to replace one drive motor. Wouldn't have been so bad, but had to do it 2x ! First one was a used unit with no warranty, $1700. That one failed and now having it rebuilt to the tune of $2900. Moral here that somebody else pointed out, look carefully at the big ticket items. Particularly the ones that make it drive and swing. Without these your going nowhere and doing nothing! Pins and bushing can be costly, but won't keep you from working, and small weeps and leaks, unless you're opening a museum, don't even worry about 'em. As far as which machine to buy? I'd go with the one that has the closest and best inventory of parts along with a reliable business history. Best of luck with your search, and G'day.

Worn out mini pics

Tried loading pics, but , well, having some problems with that. Let's see if this works:

Effinay - Love your baby...could use a little paint and whatnot, but it looks like a classic...bet it is pretty simple insofar as electronic and hydraulics go...steel tracks to boot. A shot of the engine compartment would be nice

I totally agree about your comment on big ticket items. My drive motors keep me up at night...haha, well maybe a slight exaggeration, but once I power washed the hydro compartment and the high speed switch didn't work...thought one motor was on it's way out. Dried connector and all was good in the world (couple of days of fretting though). Coming up with $3500 just like that had me thinking about what I could liquidate to pay for it. Suggest to all in keeping the hydraulic oil clean and changing out drive motor oil regularly.

I would have no problem buying a kobelco. I ran a 70 kobelco that had 8000 hours on it and it was pretty much untouched as far as repairs go. It had good power and was comfortable. If i was buying a mini I would look for a manual coupler and stay away from a pin grabber coupler. The pin grabbers always have some play in them and can be annoying. I prefer a wedge type coupler on any smaller machine.