transmition problem?

bar tl · Feb 12, 2013

help please. trans oil in my dresser 510b is a little cloudy and has alot of air bubbles (foamy) in it. trans runs fine in my opinion but then i m a newbe to heavy equipment. oil level stays consistant and it has a new hyd filter (changed all fluids and filters when purchased machine) got me kinda stumped because i dont know if this is normal or how the system works.
any help on this topic would be apreciated. thanks in advance.

oldseabee · Feb 12, 2013

First, have you got the right oil in the transmission. Second, if the transmission is overfull the constant spinning of the gears will whip the oil into a froth. Third, Charge pump could be sucking air, or the suction screen is clogged.

bar tl · Feb 12, 2013

thanks oldseabee. i appreciate your taking time to help me. so....

32 wt shell hyd oil in trans. when cold on level it fills bottom sight glass. it is up into the upper glass as well. maybe too full? if it was the charge pump or screen wouldnt my trans performace suffer? it doesnt like to start out in 3rd but it will do it. normal i hope. thoughts?

bar tl · Feb 17, 2013

i joined this forum to learn, help where i could, and maybe get some technical help when i need it. i ve learned, i ve tried to help, but not much technical help. i know with the level of experience out there some one has the answer. please share it with me.

Delmer · Feb 18, 2013

What did the old fluid look like? When you change fluids you can't get it all out, so there could still be a little water in the fluid? or it could be sucking air as mentioned, that wouldn't make a noticeable difference, until the pump gets enough air on a really cold morning that the fluid won't flow.

If you're concerned about the fluid it wouldn't hurt to spend the $10 on an oil sample.

oldseabee · Feb 18, 2013

2 things:
1. the hose to the charge pump can get pourous over time and suck air but not leak or the internal suction tube in the sump could have a pin hole or a leaking fitting where the suction hose connects to the transmission. If the trans and convertor are all one piece and there is no external suction hose then it could all be internal.
2. Are you checking the oil level with the engine running of not, most power shifts are checked with the engine running, not sure on the dresser I was a clark man. If the engine is not running when you check the level, you could be actually low on oil and at times sucking the sump dry or very low which will encourage air entry into the system.

bar tl · Feb 18, 2013

thanks for the feedback guys.

easy ones first i guess.

1. its really cold most mornings up here. the fluid is normal colored. fluid removed was not off colored either.
2. checking oil with engine running on a flat level surface. even went so far as to make sure on tire inflation. it is a little higher when running than when not. at a cold check(first started) it would appear proper. warm level fills lower glass and runs between lines on upper glass. when i did the changeover i located the cappacites for the machine and filled accordingly.
3. no visible external leaks.
4. pump hoses look good. rubber is firm but flexable. appear dry. they dont have that wet look you get when oilly
one thing i d like to add. when its running there is bubbly oil flowing onto the upper sight glass. i would guess an internal leak in return? maybe internal bypass? maybe i m worried about nothing?:beatsme

i m thinking i have the beginings of an internal issue. no shop no heat no fun.

but first i ll do what i can with the stuff i can reach.

Nige · Feb 18, 2013

A comment about capacities. They are only a guideline, not set in stone. If you can locate a procedure in the manufacturer's manual for checking oil level (all sorts of options come to mind - cold, warm, engine running, engine stopped, etc) use that and don't pay too much attention to filling "X gallons" in the compartment.

Good advice above about the possibility of an air leak on the suction side. An easy way of checking is a spray bottle filled with a solution of water and dishwashing liquid.

bar tl · Feb 19, 2013

thanks nige. i'll give the soap trick a whirl and mess with with the fill level. with the soap am i going to see bubbles in the case of a leak or ?
seabee mentioned a charge pump. are there two pumps for this transmition? ie one in the trans and another driven by the flywheel? when i look at the unit there are two pumps driven by the flywheel. one for trans and one for aux hyd.
thanks any and all for all help. steep learning curve when working on a new to you machine.

Nige · Feb 19, 2013

Shake your soap solution so you have plenty of bubbles in it. Spray it all over the hoses, especially where the fittings are, if you have a leak you'll see the foam getting sucked into the hose/fitting at the point of the leak.

John C. · Feb 19, 2013

That transmission is supposed to use Hytran or tractor hydraulic fluid and not standard hydraulic oil. I would guess that your oil does not have the proper anti foaming agents for that application. Are you having any operational problems besides the foaming oil?

You didn't mention, or I missed it, whether or not you pulled the suction strainer out of the bottom of the tranny when you changed oil. There are O rings there that can allow air to be sucked in.

bar tl · Feb 20, 2013

sorry guys been out of touch a few days. thanks for your posts.
nige neat trick. i ll try that out as soon as water doesnt freeze outside anymore. supposed to warm up for a couple days this weekend.
john i didnt pull any strainer out of the bottom of the trans. where do i get a hold of it? been a bit but i dont remember anything but the filter and drain plug. no i wouldn t say problems. it has some hickups indicative of a machine needing tlc. steering play pins bushings etc. should i be able to drop it in third and work? if so it wont. trans will stall.

d9gdon · Feb 21, 2013

You can use canned shaving cream to find those suction leaks too, although I don't know how frost proof it is...

Nige · Feb 21, 2013

As John C has indicated above if this tranny is sensitive to the type of oil and it appears to you that the machine is short of TLC then what's the betting it has the wrong oil in it ..?

bar tl · Feb 22, 2013

hello and thanks again.
when i bought the machine the first thing i did when i brought it home was change all fluids. i was having trouble finding out what to use so i phoned local komatsu. figured they should know seeing as how they bought dressers assets. no help there. so i phoned local cat guys. they recomended 32 wt for trans and hyd. so i did. i hadnt found HEF yet. i did some searching and some guys are using trans hyd some are using 10 wt or 30 wt engine oil. i dont know what to think anymore. are the original specs on line anywhere? while we re at it the cat guys said trans hyd in diffs because of the braking system. is this right?
shaving cream eh? who knew it was such a versitile product.

seriously though i think that concept will work just fine. probly better because it will stick to the hoses and doesnt disappear as quick?

John C. · Feb 22, 2013

If the local guys won't help with fluids try the guys at Modern Machinery in Kent, WA. 253 872 3500

Jack or Greg in service should be able to point you in the right direction. I've pretty sure you use Hytrans in both the transmission and axles. You used to be able to use 30Wt. engine oil in the diffs with the addition of a friction modifier but that has probably changed now.

Good Luck

nascar3 · Feb 22, 2013

hello u have a 1986 dresser 520b the manual calls for 10W oil in the trans the instructions say the oil should fill lower glass when stopped then start and warm up to operating temp oil then should be between two lines in upper glass enging running in netural

Nige · Feb 22, 2013

That's good information, but there are 10W hydraulic oils out there, and also 10W transmission oils. Both might say 10W on the label but one will work correctly and one won't work quite so well.........
Does that manual say anything about the need for the 10W oil being something like TO-2 or TO-4 specification..?

nascar3 · Feb 22, 2013

according to operator manual it states same oil as in engine sae 10W EO IH engine oil or MIL-L2104C my book also states that the hydraulic reservoir takes the same oil sae 10W also

Nige · Feb 22, 2013

MIL-L-2104C is a long-obsolete engine oil spec from back in the day, equivalent to API CD. The clincher is the fact the manual says use the same 10W as in the hydraulic system. That would indicate a 10W hydraulic oil. If it was mine I think I might just throw some 10W TO-4 in it and see how it goes.

transmition problem?

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