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Scrapers in Non Western Countries

Wildwest

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Dec 26, 2012
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5
Location
canada
Why don't non western Countries use scrapers? Countries like china/brazil/India with huge infrastructure projects don't seem to use them much, even developed countries like japan and south Korea don't seem to use them.

I don't have much experience with scrapers but they seem like a very expensive niche market machinery. Even in there niche market I think excavators and haul trucks would come pretty close to their efficiency. With their huge upfront costs and expensive maintenance and parts requirements they only seem feasible in select areas with excellent parts and service support and huge pockets.
 

rare ss

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Apr 1, 2011
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Western Australia
I noticed that even companies likeKomatsu, Hitachi or Hyundai don't make scrapers.

Komatsu did make some scrapers back in the 70's and 80's?

They are high maintainance machine with a high purchase price (and manufacturing cost) they move the dirt quickly though
 

Gavin84w

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Mar 29, 2007
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554
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Australia
In the right conditions you will not move dirt cheaper than with scrapers however they take skill to operate and maintain so as that takes time to aquire and the generation of dirt movers coming through today have not got the time to aquire those prerequisites they gravitate to more expensive means of moving the dirt (artics & diggers). Scrapers have made a bit of a resurgence in the past few years and clawed back some ground on the dumb truck/excavator world as cost pressures from clients have increased and Cat are addressing the issue with operator skill by enabling new series machines to have some automated funcions so less skilled guys and girls can run the machine to a higher degree of efficiency than they might have had otherwise.

A contractor in Australia who was expert in the art of the scraper through the 70,s, 80,s & 90,s used to claim that if you can get it in the bowl then it is scraper dirt, simple as that and from what i saw them do i would agree.

With the non western country think it would come down to a couple of things with the main one being an abundance of labour at cheap rates with the next being education of the process but that is changing and for China at least and to a lesser extent India as they both become more westernised things will change, i would think China is a huge market for scrapers but when they do projects of a mass scale they are not done with massive equipment it is more so massive amounts of people and small equipment.
 
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JGS Parts

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Australia/China
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there is only one scraper manufacture in china that i knoe of and well he is gone now i think and the chinese look at it as an investment thing an excavator in china would give you a lot more return then a scarper would i have never seen one in china and i have traveled around china a hell of a lot and i am yet to meet a chinese guy who knows what one is also.

but in saying that backhoe loaders where rare as rocking horse **** a few years back but seeing more and more of them in china so i guess with time might start to see some scrapers around my father ran scapers in victoria in australia for more then 35 years.
 
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Oxbow

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Nov 22, 2012
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Idaho
SoCalEarthmovers have some pretty cool videos using scrapers on YouTube. Cheapest cost per cubic yard in most materials, if they are available. I wonder if contracts in some "Eastern" countries are less competitive, at least governmental contracts. Free market competetive efficiency using outside contractors vs. government performing work themselves? Doesn't explain why private sector would not use them, unless there are no private sector projects.

I know, I am displaying my ignorance of how things are done around the world.
 

Dualie

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Feb 23, 2007
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Nor Cal
they are a very focused tool. they pick dirt up and lay it down. An excavator and a ADT or haul truck have more uses in less civilized situations.
 

terexkerry

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May 2, 2009
Messages
183
Location
new zealand
have to agree with gavin,guys over here in nz do not want to do the hours, want air con and stero,and on cellphone all day,should look at choopers video and harden up,merry xmas,kerry
 

928G Boy

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Feb 2, 2007
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274
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Winnipeg, Canada
ADT and hoe have less breakdowns and ADTs are more easily available for dry rental and they're more efficient when the haul is longer

cat and scraper make good money when there's no service truck parked beside them
 

terexkerry

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May 2, 2009
Messages
183
Location
new zealand
in the right aplication you cannot beat scrapers atd,s are used alot over here because no one can handlel scrapers and they are not intereted;kerry
 

Gavin84w

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Mar 29, 2007
Messages
554
Location
Australia
ADT and hoe have less breakdowns and ADTs are more easily available for dry rental and they're more efficient when the haul is longer

cat and scraper make good money when there's no service truck parked beside them

Breakdowns can come from people and processes just as much as the manufacturer, that is BS they have less breakdowns.

ADT & hoe are expensive dirt movers when you break it down to cost/bcm moved, it,s just that no one needs real brains to run those that well so they are the choice of a generation in this era, you know they have the p upside down in the word "dump" truck don,t you!!
 

Buckethead

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I think scrapers are cheaper per yard in most situations. Especially a shallow cut over a wide area, like stripping topsoil. But, if it is extremely wet or rocky, back dumps are a good way to go.
 

alco

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Apr 7, 2006
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it,s just that no one needs real brains to run those that well so they are the choice of a generation in this era, you know they have the p upside down in the word "dump" truck don,t you!!

That's funny, cuz I have yet to meet someone who runs a buggy that would qualify as a rocket scientist.

Like others have said, in the right conditions, buggies are the cheapest way to move dirt. However, the ADT/hoe combo are a more versatile system, and while they may have a higher cost per BCM, they can be utilized more, bringing down their overall ownership costs. Ideally, it would be great to have fleets of both to tailor to any situation thrown at you, but most contractors can't do that, and need to compromise with one or the other. The ADT/hoe combo seems to be a more adaptable compromise in most cases.
 

390eric

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Feb 24, 2009
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274
Location
pittsburgh PA
Can I ask why you guys feel the younger generation is the dismise of scraper use? I am 26 and would love to run a scraper. I have been a few ts 14s mainly just a couple hours on them, nothing major. Its not my fault all the companies in my area have switched to adts and hoes. Only one local company I know that has a few, barely ever uses them. Mainly just see the elevating ones working with graders. Just do not think all young people are soft, I operate what I am given to run. It is not my fault my owner keeps a newer fleet and everything has radios, a/c, heat and it all works. Guess he might feel he gets more out of us by being a little more comfortable.
 

Brainzie

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Mar 22, 2010
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112
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New Zealand
have to agree with gavin,guys over here in nz do not want to do the hours, want air con and stero,and on cellphone all day,should look at choopers video and harden up,merry xmas,kerry

Well said Kerry. Not gunna be much fun in once all the old school operators have gone
 
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Greg

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Wi
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You may think his reasoning is that he will get more out of you if you are comfortable. There are a lot of "machine drivers" around these days that call themselves "operators" who won't get on a machine unless it has heat, air conditioning, stereo and the likes. Then there are the ones that won't get on a scraper too.

I always had draw bar type scrapers behind Cat D7's and D8's around here until I started selling out. With a D7 push Cat could load a Cat No. 80 scraper in around 30 seconds. Lets see a hoe load an ADT in that time. Much of the time went without a push Cat at all. Run the numbers and see what moves material for the lowest unit cost. Answer is obvious.

You must be the exception to the rule 390 eric.
 

Oxbow

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Nov 22, 2012
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Idaho
The comments made regarding the utility of hoes and ADT's make sense for small to medium sized projects, but if you have a couple of million yards to move there is no comparison if the material is suitable. The original question though deals with why they are not found in NON WESTERN countries. Availability surely is part of the answer. It would take a huge project to warrant shipping scrapers in if other equipment is available.

Regarding availability, I used to truck in and out of California each week, and was always amazed at the size of equipment (large) that was brought in for relatively small projects. It would not be economically viable in most places, but if a contractor has that size of equipment sitting in their yard and is equipped to mobilize it then the math works out a lot different.

I
 

D6 Merv

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Coromandel Peninsula. New Zealand
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Self employed bulldozing contractor with a D6D D4E
One other thing about developing countrys is that scrapers were not there to start with. Western countrys; scrapers have been around since the 60s.
Theyre buying machinery now and new scrapers are priced off the list; whereas new diggers and atds are readily available. Plus you only need a skilled man at each end of the load/dump cycle and the people in the dumpers can just be mushrooms.
however diggers and dump trucks depend on each other; when 1 stops the others not much use. Scrapers, if one dies the rest can keep going; well twin power anyway; single needs a shove from behind ! and like greg said scrapers will load in under a minute, diggers wont do that !
 

ShaneK

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Dec 31, 2012
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83
Location
Canada
Why don't non western Countries use scrapers? Countries like china/brazil/India with huge infrastructure projects don't seem to use them much, even developed countries like japan and south Korea don't seem to use them.
Even in there niche market I think excavators and haul trucks would come pretty close to their efficiency.
I've attached a few images from a massive project in Saudi Arabia. They were making shrimp ponds out there, and found that the most efficient way to move material was with Scrapers hauled by Artics. Project started in the fall of 2010. If memory serves me correct, I believe they were using 6 scrapers with 33 cubic yard capacity in their fleet to maximize production.
Production Fleet:
IMG00082-20110929-1659.jpg

Bell ADT Power-unit pulling K-Tec Scraper:
IMG00100-20110930-0946.jpg

I think a lot of foreign contractors are uneducated about more efficient ways of moving dirt. It is easier to use your older inefficient equipment, than to seek out new machinery, and hope that it can ship overseas.
 
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