This thread isn't working quite right. I'm going to take it apart and try to figure out why.
Nick proudly posts pictures of the team.
Okay, nothing wrong there.
biggixxerjim expresses shock, says
he wouldn't try some of those positions and questions the stress put on the machine. Asks a rhetorical question about insurance.
Since they must be insured, that one's really not pertinant. Most of us wouldn't try any of those positions either. Shocked reaction is consistent with that. Valid question about the stabilizer though.
farm_boy comments on the origin of the machines.
Nothing to be concerned about there.
Dozerboy comments that doing those moves in sync would be difficult.
Can't argue with that. He didn't really show any appreciation for the moves themselves though. Early signs that the thread is not operating as the Original Poster expected...
greywynd, as a professional operator, wonders if there's any unseen ballast involved.
Not an unreasonable question if you've operated machines well within the limits of their center of gravity.
greywynd continues, and becomes the first to question the importance of the "Now kids, don't try this at home" factor.
It's unfortunate, but it's an undeniable fact of life that people will stupidly try to imitate things that are well beyond thier abilities. This could lead to further discussion
Grader4me wonders whether there were any accidents in learnig how to do the stunts and comments that there's no room for error.
Reasonable conclusion; a left-handed complimnet actually, following another valid question.
Blademan sends his compliments and thanks for the pictures.
Good, good....
tone_rmz joins the thread, and assures us there is no unseen ballast; these are everyday working machines. And he assures us that he and the other operators are highly experienced.
The question of ballast is answered. Good. No enlightenment on the other valid questions though, and no elaboration on how the operators came to be able to competently do things the rest of us don't do.
Grader4me enthusiastically welcomes tone rmz, and points out that he'd be the most qualified to answer questions on the subject.
Good point. It's nice to have one of the experts to share the details with those of us who only operate well within the limits, but would love to know more about how the experience of operating close to the limits.
CB welcomes the new member.
He welcomes everybody. Nothing out of the ordinary there. He requests more pictures.
Nick happiliy obliges with more pictures, and praises the team.
Good.
RonG expresses wild admiration.
Good.
Nick responds, graciuosly.
Good
skata asks about oil starvation.
Valid question, from one professional operator to another.
Steve echos that concern, and adds concern about hydraulics starving for fluid.
More valid qustions, from one professional operator to another.
Steve continues, echoing the earlier concern about how the crowd might interpert actions that professional training and government regulations are contrary to.
greywynd's concerns have not yet been addressed. They are repeated.
Nick reacts.
Not graciously
Steve apologizes. Elaborates on his safety concerns, and expresses that he's simply voicing his opinion.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Ross compliments Nick's pictures.
Good.
Wulf adds another compliment, comments on the "healthy debate", and comments on the high standards of safety required of british operators. He brings up the aspect of "showmanship" and that this is a performance, similar to other types of entertainment.
Good, and a valid point.
Nick praises Wulf's common sense, and cites the need to "defend" his friends.
Indication that what some consider valid questions, some others consider "attacks".
Lashlander, with a BIG grin smiley, comments on the lack of helmet on the ATV rider. he continues, to agree with Wulf on the showmanship aspect, but does not praise the concept of staging such a show in the first place.
One man's opinions, reasonably expressed.
Tone rmz replies:
Hi i drive one of these machines in the show and i am very disapointed to think that you lot think we are cowboys and not experienced in what we do all these machines are serviced to the highest standard and fitted with check valves, we do not intend to put anyones life in danger and would not do it if we were!!!! and by the way its not law to wear a helmet to ride a quad "atv" in the uk.
First use of the term "cowboys" and first suggestion that the operators are not experienced. Apparently Lashlander's big smiley on the helmet comment fails to get through as well.
trex2 and DigDug make comments on the machines.
OrchardEx attempts to clarify everybody's positions, and "respectfully suggests" that calm should prevail, and further details and information about the performers and the machines would be beneficial toward that end.
Good. Very good.
Steve shares the basis of his safety concerns, and reiterates them. On trhe subject of this discussion, he goes on to add:
This forum is all about discussion, the good, bad and the evil. We can cover it all in a mature manner if we don't try to read between the lines. Opinions will differ again and again, there's no need to get excited or take things personally.
That should stand on its own, without further comment from me.
Long winded, Digger adds his 2 cents, trying to give equal validity to both sides of the discussuion.
Who cares what he thinks?:rolleyes:
jimmyjack and jazack add topical comments.
Nick characterizes the foregoing as a "ripping by the PC brigade", but asserts that he is ready for "another barrage of negative comments". He adds smileys.
I've lost count of the positives vs the negatives, vs the valid questions.
Anybody wanna count?
MKTEF adds compliments, and a question about the performance.
Good.
Digger, always eager to please, finds a negative comment to make. He notes that Nick said he was ready, and adds a smiley, or two.
Digger should have learned something by this point. Obviously he's a little slow on the uptake...
skata, possibly following Digger's lead, makes light of the Case team, vs the JCB team.
Never follow Digger's lead. bad bad bad...
Nick replies to MKTEF, and acknowleges that Digger might be ok, outside of work.
Thanks, Nick. I try real hard to be ok everywhere. I'm glad to know you see I'm making progress.
Digger and Nick subsequently come to an understanding that for Nick, there's no understanding Digger.
tone rmz rejoins the discussion, his third post on the forum, in total. Rather than answer any of the questions or concerns voiced earlier, he posts a reply that is less than gracious (in Digger's opinion only--your mileage may vary), and expresses that any posting of pictures of his group's performance here may be a waste of time.
In Digger's opinion only, the individual most qualified to answer all questions on the subject, the easy ones as well as the hard ones, has chosen to avoid doing so. That's a shame, cause we really are a reasonable bunch of people, and we do usually manage to keep our exchanges civil, even cordial. Even when our opinions differ. What constitutes a greater waste of time? Posting pictures that are not met with universal, unqualified praise, or asking reasonable and valid questions, one professional to another, and having those questions largly ignored or interpreted as attacks?
