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Challengers & Scrapers

Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
19
Location
Louisiana
Im new to this web site and i was hoping to find some solid information on the production ratings of cat challengers and scrapers!? I know there are a lot of variables but if you would please enlighten me on your past or present knowledge of these combo's. Thank You

I'm sure I'm late to the party here, so sorry. I've run the Challengers, Deere's, Case wheel, and QuadTrac. The Challengers have some nice features, a great cab, and smooth hydraulics. There a ton of nice things I can say about them, but sadly, they are less productive than the Deere and Case wheel machines. In spite of that extra HP, they won't load one extra spoonful of dirt than the other guys. Add to that, the 20+ gallons per hour fuel burn and you'll quickly find that you're better off going green or red.
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
19
Location
Louisiana
I know Challenger had fits with those track belts. Probably why Deere stayed away from rubber tracks for so long. We'll have to wait and see what that new 9R's got.
 

SE contractor

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Florida
I'm sure I'm late to the party here, so sorry. I've run the Challengers, Deere's, Case wheel, and QuadTrac. The Challengers have some nice features, a great cab, and smooth hydraulics. There a ton of nice things I can say about them, but sadly, they are less productive than the Deere and Case wheel machines. In spite of that extra HP, they won't load one extra spoonful of dirt than the other guys. Add to that, the 20+ gallons per hour fuel burn and you'll quickly find that you're better off going green or red.

We run circles around wheel tractors here in Fl (very sand conditions) with the 865. pulling double and sometimes triple hummdinger bowls. Hummdinger is the old Nobels and Terex bowl
 

nextdoor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
128
Location
Eastern Wheatbelt Western Australia
Occupation
Farming and playing in the dirt
I have a MT865 as well but have only used it in ag use. My average load is about 95% on the engine at 15km/h and we have done 4000 hours with the tracks still a good 75%. It has been a fantastic tractor with no issues so far. I do make a point of checking the temps of the inside of the idler every time we stop in case of the tracks "tracking" off. Make sure you change the rear drive hub oil @ 250 hr intervals and use the genuine synthetic oil, I think it will be cheap in the long run.
A bloke in my area runs a JD track machine and tore all the guide blocks off a new track and was told to take it back and they will repair it, so if there is any truth in it I might be able to find out and will post it when I hear what the deal is. Cheers.
 

SE contractor

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Florida
We average about 3000 hrs on the severe duty tracks from challenger. we tried the light duty agg and some after market tracks only to see the guides torn off in less than 100 hrs. were pulling two 19yd scrapers on an average haul of about 1500 ft As far as the Deere tack machine the dealers wont even sell us one to pull scrapers. In there words " its not built for that kind of work"
 

SE contractor

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Florida
I wish the equipment we have lived up to these standars. the only tractor we have that has lasted for 8 years is pulling a drag box or the water tanker
 

IsaacEssex

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
9
Location
Omaha, NE
Occupation
Project Estimator
what do you think about putting them in a sand/sandy clay application? just got a job that is right next to the missouri river, top 5 foot is clay then the rest is sandy clay or just sand. its gonna be wet, got about a half foot of water just sitting on top right now from the recent flooding.
 

SE contractor

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Florida
No they cannot be reattached, after you rip enuff of them off it will eventualy throw a track, your proably going to have to buy a whole new track. Do you know what size pads your MT has? I know there are 3 different sizes, 36 inches being the largest. Company i used to work for had 15 MT865 and i think we could get around 1500hrs out of a set of tracks and boggie wheels.

RING POWER the CAT/Challenger dealer here in Fl sells a replacement lug that bolts through the track. You have to drill a hole trough the rubber and the steel belts, which I believe to be counter intuitive, but they sell it none the less
 

SE contractor

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Florida
I believe they will do well in the soft under-footing, we decided on the 30 in. severe duty tracks. we found that they lasted longer than 36 in. when we did have to run them in clay. Our operators tended to throw the wider tracks much more often shorting the life of the tracks dramatically. Even with the 30 in tracks we had much more flotation the the wheeled tractors
 

hvy 1ton

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
1,946
Location
Lawrence, KS
RING POWER the CAT/Challenger dealer here in Fl sells a replacement lug that bolts through the track. You have to drill a hole trough the rubber and the steel belts, which I believe to be counter intuitive, but they sell it none the less

Aren't they call Larry Lugs or something like that?
 

vapor300

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2010
Messages
382
Location
St. louis
And i bet they dont hold up.

Issaac i think they do awesome in the conditions you just described, wet conditions is were these machines CANNOT be beat, and if it gets to wet for the challengers get a few quadtraxs, we had a few jobs down in the misissippi and MO river bottoms and we had water come up throu the ground faster then we could pump it, had challengers and quads running throu a foot of water and slop! A challenger or quad pulling one 17 yard pan will go anywhere a widepad 6 will go
 

Excavator 808

New Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
3
Location
Ohio
hey kman not sure if your still on here anymore but if so i am looking for some opinions on the 9510r vs challenger mt965c if you have ran either one. i currently have a 9520 pulling 2 e-ject scrapers i like my jd but and trying to decide to stay with a new deere or try a challenger, also i will be running single or dual tires not tracks. any info you have would be appreciated, thanks in advance.
 

Kman9090

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
273
Location
Everywhere
Well honestly I've never ran the wheeled version of the new John Deere yet I've only been in the 9560T. I really liked the redesigned cab, but I have not been in a Challenger product in a few years now. Honestly you really cant go wrong with either one. The MT's had their issues when they first came out but those have been cleared up. If it where up to I would contact both dealers and see which one is easiest to work with and they may even let you demo them. All in all dealer support for the John Deere scraper machines is 2nd to none. Also look around there are alot of used 9630 tractors are the market with low hours that can be picked up for cheap. Also if you have a choice stay away from the floatation tires, they are not good in soft material with pans.
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Post number 9 showed a picture of a converted haul truck, those look like the ones made in my area by a private person who works with cat, he sold them the eject scraper patents, and is working on replacing rubber tracks with steel on the haul trucks to pull scrapers, we toured his shop this spring, he also makes a new frame and scraper hitch to pull a lot larger scraper on a goosneck hitch as well, something over 30 yards or more to transfer weight to the haul truck, he also uses the rubber tires to help increase speeds of his scrapers on longer hauls, and can convert them back to boxes as well, a multipurpose machine with many uses was his theory and he got rid of his entire challenger pull scraper fleet due to high maintence costs of the rubber tracks.

Its more of specilized lineup for his type of work, not necessarly everyones, but he runs a pretty large fleet of these machines in my area, not sure exactly how many, but I think maybe he sold about 50 or more challengers and pull pans to go to these, he's stripping top soil and clay for road building is his main thing, but ships them all over the world is what we were told on the tour for specilized applications.
 

Kman9090

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
273
Location
Everywhere
Yes the company is out of Iowa and the name is CJ Moyna. I don't know how many of these they have and how good they are but the rumor when they first came out was the biggest issues were the trannies. As a 740 transmission is not made to self load. Also said in most applications you had to put a programmer on the 740 for a little extra kick to pull 2 pans. Good idea and I'm sure it has its place but I don't think it will replace Ag scrapers as there are always a place for everything. I believe they said their top speed was 14mph. Here's a pretty cool video of them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL_Iap4ZWIQ
 

ShaneK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
83
Location
Canada
Im new to this web site and i was hoping to find some solid information on the production ratings of cat challengers and scrapers!? I know there are a lot of variables but if you would please enlighten me on your past or present knowledge of these combo's. Thank You
Here's an image of an 875C Cat Challenger pulling a 33 cubic yard K-Tec scraper. Not sure of what the production numbers would be out of this set-up:
challengerktecSaudi.JPG

For an added oomph to max out a heaped load of sand, this company had a custom push-block made to help from the rear:
IMG00594-20110723-1127.jpg
 

ShaneK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
83
Location
Canada
And after a quick google search on your topic, the following article popped up for me:
http://www.seriousmachinery.com/press11.html

Press Releases
Latest News from Challenger
December 13, 2005

Challenger MT875B exceeds expectations
Brett Kingston wasn't looking to create history when he ordered the largest production tractor ever to be sold in Australia – he was simply after efficiency gains through deliverable horsepower.

Brett, who operates Kingston Landformers at Griffith in NSW's Murrumbidgee Irrigation Area (MIA) with his wife, Sonia, wanted to grow his business without having to employ extra staff or move away from the hands-on role he enjoys.

After looking at the latest concepts in landforming globally, the answer came in the Challenger MT875B 570 hp track tractor – the highest horsepower tractor in the world – from AGCO Australia Ltd, which he has combined with a K-Tec 3100 (31 yard) Earthmover from Canada.

"When the K-Tec arrived I tried it on the wheeled articulated tractors I'd been using and it was working them too hard. I tried a range of wheel tractors and after talking to WesTrac, the local Challenger dealer, I thought the MT 875B could be the answer."

Chris Waterson, Challenger's area business manager, explained the Challenger MT875B was making its way to Australia by sea freight when the deal went through. The second Challenger MT875B ordered for Australia, has since been sold to a landforming contractor in Victoria.

"As a track tractor, they are designed for farming applications but they are available by factory order in a specification purpose built for earthmoving," he said.

Brett admitted to being nervous about taking the risk on a machine he'd never test driven but his fears were allayed from the first job.

"In one hit, I virtually doubled my capacity. Already it has opened up opportunities for work I previously had to knock back or bring in excavators and trucks to carry out because the site was too wet or hard to access."

"It's proved ideal for the soft soil which seems to exist in areas which have been under irrigation for some time."

The majority of Brett's work is irrigation development – laser levelling paddocks, constructing bank less irrigation channels and building dams for water storage and recycling drains. Originally from Hillston, he came to Griffith as a subcontractor for another earth moving firm in 1988 and within a few years started his own business. Brett now has a strong and growing clientele base that he enjoys working with.

His original buckets or "bowls" are still in use after 40,000 hours. Originally built by an Albury firm, they carry 18 cubic yards, one is currently pulled by a Case 9390 and the other by a New Holland TJ 425 hp articulated tractor.

"They've both been great tractors, but if conditions weren't right the job became difficult. If it's too wet you'd have to call in excavators and trucks and that could mean five or six extra vehicles and the cost increases," Brett said.

Brett said in a business the size of Kingston Landformers the only way to progress was to move ahead with the technology available. After researching the possibilities, the K-Tec Earthmover offered a solution. As 80 percent of the earthmover is constructed of lightweight high tensile steel, it is one of the lightest scrapers available. Weighing in at 24,000 pounds (10,900kg) empty the K-Tec has a heaped capacity of 31 cubic yards. It is built for optimum dumping with an apron opening of 84 inches (2.13m).

Teamed with the MT875B Challenger Tractor the versatility and efficiency of this complete unit has proven to be an extremely successful exercise.

"I needed to take a step forward and I didn't want to take on extra staff and machines. I didn't want to spend all day in the office because I like being out here doing the work myself," he said, adding he and Sonia are now the Australian distributors of K-Tec Earthmovers.

"When you look at the capital investment in machinery it can seem overwhelming. But already the earthmoving business is operating more time and cost efficiently.

"Daily maintenance on the Challenger MT875B and K-Tec is so minimal Iím saving an hour and half a day and previously that was unpaid time."

Fuel consumption has decreased with the Challenger using around 55 to 65 litres an hour when carrying around double the capacity of Brett's other tractors which average between 55 and 58 litres an hour each.

"I'll admit I was concerned about the tracks and people had warned me a track tractor could be rough to sit in all day, but that was the older models and after a day in the Challenger you still feel pretty good," he said.

"I'd budgeted for a new set of tracks every season – or basically once a year – but after 500 hours in the Challenger I can see they will go further than that. They also allow great manoeuvrability – even with a full load of dirt you can turn quickly in a tight spot."

Brett now uses the Challenger MT875B and K-Tec bowl to do the majority of the initial earthworks with the two other tractors and bowls used to finish or polish the surface. "Originally with the existing machines the cut had to be ripped for us to load. Now with the Challenger MT875B and K-Tec 3100 the non productive time of ripping has been converted into productive earthmoving."

The new Challenger MT800B series utilises the same fundamental systems found on its predecessors, but with some important changes including new engines and the new model – the MT875B.

Chris Waterson explained the new series had many improvements on the old. "People remember the old D and E Series Caterpillar track tractors as being a little rough, but the new MT700 and MT800 series models have completely changed that perception with the state-of-the art Mobil-trac suspended undercarriage system providing a smooth ride combined with the exceptional tractive efficiency only a track tractor can deliver."

"As the Challenger product line has evolved, so to have the Challenger dealers become more focussed on the sale and support of agricultural machinery. Customers have the full back up of an extensive network of service, spare parts, skilled technicians and sales people around the country. In New South Wales WesTrac's continual commitment to agriculture, provides high quality agricultural solutions. It is no longer the case of earthmoving equipment dealers selling a bit of farm machinery on the side."

Realising such high capacity tractors may well be in use 24 hours a day in some operations, Challenger has worked hard to make sure driver comfort in the new MT875B was guaranteed. The cabin boasts 108 cubic feet of space with improved noise reduction from previous models. There is ergonomic placement of controls, an air suspended seat, a 12 vent air conditioner system and panoramic views from large windows.

"I like to keep the tractors clean and if you are moving around the outside of the cab you have easy access to all the windows with wide platforms – there's no hanging off the side trying to reach around the back. They are good and safe for employees to move around," Brett said.
 
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