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Looking to buy a Mini-X, could use some suggestions

D_Winchester

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Colorado, United States
I work for a plumbing company, as their head excavator. We currently have a JCB 3CX backhoe and a bobcat s185 (I believe) skidsteer. Now the company is finally looking to buy a mini-x, because we rent them a lot! I told them before they bought the backhoe that they'd be better off with a mini, but my opinion was disregarded haha. Anyhow, the only mini-x's that I have operated have been from the same rental company, and they only carry Bobcat brand mini's. All that I have had a chance to run are the 325 and 331. They are not much different in physical size, but the 331 completely out performs the 325. My company is looking into bobcat brand mini-x's to purchase, but I asked them to hold off until I could do some research. Also, both machines I've ran were not zero swing, and it has been tough at times. So I'm hoping to find some advise as to what machine to recommend to them. Thank you for any advise!
 

DrJim

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Feb 19, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Oak Ridge TN
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General Dentist, including Implant Restorations
Oh, this one will be great fun! Who wants to be first?

Welcome to HEF, D_W I think you'll enjoy it. Lot's of good information here.

I rent compact excavators from time to time, usually Bobcat, primarily because they are the closest to me and have rental terms that suit my needs. We usually rent the newer models. . . and they all work fine. The E series will be different than the 325/331's, and all the new ones have dual mode selectable patterns. My main advice--and you probably already know this--is to shy away from high-hour ragged-out machines. You want to work with it, not on it. When you figure out the ideal balance of "compactness" vs. power/digging speed, be sure to rent or demo the new models that meet your needs.

But therein lies the rub: If you buy the latest, "improved" models in any brand, nobody can tell you how they hold up for say, 3000 hrs. An alternative is to find a sub-300 hr. "older" (established) model, with the nuances all well known.

As for the S185, there are many maintenace tips on HEF that apply to that machine (same as 773G series), so as you get some hours on that, you'll have a good technical resource. For starters, see the "Mystery Part" post: Locate and tighten the pump-mount bolt before it falls out. If it is loose, remove it and apply red Loctite.

I look forward to watching what others post about excavators. I would love to have one, just can't justify owning one vs. renting right now.

Again, welcome to HEF!
 

xcmark

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
357
Location
Foxboro , Ma.
Occupation
construction
I would say you need to know who in the area is your better and best dealers for parts and service. I am sure your goign to get a wide base of opinions but Case , Case ,Bobcat E type , Takahuci , ,kubota, IHI are all good machines. If your going used I would say sell the backhoe , keep the skidsteer and be ready to spend $30K for a machine that is around 1500 hrs and 3+ years old for a 10,000 lb machine. a 10,000 lb mini will out dig your CX3 , use about 1/4 less fuel and get in to much smaller spaces , the best part is being able to move it with a p/u truck.
 

andrewpond

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Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
53
Location
canada
I have only had bobcats mini's. Started with 322 then 329 (buget model of 311) Currently have new E32 with long arm cab heat air and hydraulic quick attach. And I love it. so much more productive when u r not sweating like crazy in summer or too bundled up with jackets etc in winter. My favorite is hydraulic quick attach to switch buckets. Saves huge hrs. E32 near zero swing ie small butt. U loose lift power with zero swing. I am happy with near zero and they tuck good counter weight in tight.
 

DrJim

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Feb 19, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Oak Ridge TN
Occupation
General Dentist, including Implant Restorations
Good points, all of them. Be careful with the "10,000 lb", pull it with a pick-up idea. The problem is. . . the GVWR of the trailer minus the trailer weight is your net load capacity. My Contrail (by Towmaster) C-12 12,000 lb trailer weighs 2,600 lb or more. The other problem is trailer hitch rating--the standard OEM pickup truck hitches typically top out at 10k, but maybe only 7,500 lb "weight carrying". You'll need a Curt hitch rated 14k weight distributing/12k weight carrying to be "safe" from a liability aspect.

Thus. . . though I like the bigger machines, you'll probably due a mix of small, medium, and larger jobs. Pick the machine that fits somewhere in the middle. If you get into an extra small or extra large job, you can always rent a larger or smaller machine every now and then.
 

xcmark

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
357
Location
Foxboro , Ma.
Occupation
construction
a duel wheel new GMC 3500 is rated to tow 18000 off the back of the truck and 23,000lbs on a 5th wheel plate. so a class A CDl drivers LIC and a fairly new truck and your off to the job site (with no issues from the law)
the single rear wheel trucks are rated at 13000 off the back and 17,800 on a 5th wheel plate , still OK if your useing a 5th WHEEL TRAILER .
 

DrJim

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172
Location
Oak Ridge TN
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General Dentist, including Implant Restorations
xcmark, I've seen those load ratings for the trucks themselves. But unless it something has changed completely since 2007, the hitches that come pre-installed on the trucks aren't usually rated for the max truck tow specs. That's always been an annoyance--a new truck rated to "bumper pull" 13k+ but the factory hitch rated at 7,000 or 7.500. It wouldn't cost $40 more for the OEM truck manufacturers include the full-spec hitch on the trucks. . . but if we want to change one, we essientially have to the throw down the OEM hitch and buy a new one from scratch, getting nothing for the one that we paid for that was on the truck when it left the factory. But as a study this topic for this post, I see some of the logic: The OEM hitch may in fact be closer to the true practical load limits for safe towing. There are dozens of factors to consider.

The tow weights are reduced for extended cab trucks, and even more for crew cab trucks. My GM book takes it a step further: "Maximum trailer weight is calculated assumiing only the driver is in the town vehicle and it has all the required trailering equipment. The weight of additional optional equipment, passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle must be subtracted from the maximum trailer weight." This includes the installed weight of everything, including any goose-neck or 5th wheel hitches, safety chains, etc. All of that must be subtracted from the "maxiumum" allowed trailer weight number.

The calculation gets to be more complicated, taking into the load ratings for the individual axles. GM specifications state that trailer tongue weight should be 10-15 percent of the total loaded trailer weight--but with a catch: For example, for the 2500 HD or 3500 series trucks, the maximum tongue weight is 750 lbs for a "weight carrying" hitch. Note that 10% --no, let's split the difference between 10 and 15 and use 12.5%--12.5% of my truck's "maximum" 14,200 trailer load is a whopping 1,775 lb suggested tongue weight. Even at the minimum 10% tongue weight, this is far more than the "weight carrying" ,method you see most commonly used. The trailer tongue weight maximum is increased to 1500 lb for a 2500HD or 3500 series truck. When was the last time you saw a contractor with the weight-distributing "lift bars" installed and adjusted correctly?

The challenge keeps on going: I actually have a Putnam, I believe, weight distributing set. But the gross trailer weight rating for the assembly is only 10,000 lb.

Also note that in addition to GVWR and "maximum trailering capacity", there are also specifications for individual axles, for example, the RGAWR (Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating). It is possible--actually more often likely--that the RGAWR rating is exceeded at loads less than the maximum trailering load rating. Due to the physics & geometry of how the load vectors are applied when trailering, GM indicates that a typical trailer tongue weight of 1,000 lb can easily put more than 1,500 lb of weight on the rear axle.

This all makes my head hurt. One thing is for sure: (I learned this "one thing" trick from an attorney lol)
1a) Without a weight distributing hitch, virtually every single skid-steer or excavator trailer you see is overloaded--by a substantial amount, in many cases.

1b) Weight distributing hardware and hitch components for trailer weights > 10,000 lbs in not widely available. When you find it, it will be expensive.

1c) Even with weight-distributing hitch components, in most cases the actual "maximum loaded trailer weight" is likely to be substantially less than the biggest number you see listed in the chart, due to additional equipment, passengers, and other "non-ideal" factors.

1d) Sure, a 5th wheel or goose-neck trailer helps resolve the axle-loading/tongue weight issues. . . but with another problem, i.e. the added structural weight of the goose-neck trailer. When you see these rigs fully loaded, the weight may be distributed better between the front and rear axles, but it is highly likely that they, too, are more often than not overloaded.

Buy an excavator and enjoy it. But pick a machine (and trailer) that meets most of your needs but can be towed safely by more than one of your company's trucks. Convenience and utility is the entire point of "compact" equipment. Some of the "compact" stuff we are seeing has outgrown that adjective.

{Note to Super-Moderators: Feel free to copy or move this post to a "trailering" thread as may be appropriate.**
 
Last edited:

xcmark

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Feb 28, 2010
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357
Location
Foxboro , Ma.
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construction
the new GM truck come with a 2 1/2" receiver , the 2008? or 09 and older trucks came with a 2" square receiver hitch so the rating at the back of the truck is much higher now with a better hitch and bigger rear frame.

I do agree with you the older trucks could only pull 10K with load bars and like 7.5K with out them. the verticle load with bars If I recall was 1500 or a little more on my 2006 truck ( I have changed the hitch to a putnam also). Weight wise with my eager beaver deck over 14K trailer my 10,700 lb skid steer max's out the factory tow ratings and requires a CDL class A drivers lic. On the scales my crew cab with trailer is 22,600 lbs , the truck back in 2006 from GM was certified to pull 23,000. I dont suggest that this a a good idea but it can be done with zero margin of safety on a 2500 hd 4x4. power wise the truck can easly pull over 30K up hills but I dont suggest it.
 

DrJim

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Oak Ridge TN
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General Dentist, including Implant Restorations
Yes, the manufacturers have "upped" the specs on the hitches in beginning with the "new" 2007's (GM), and I'm not sure about the others. Yes, you "can" do it, but the zero-margin was my point. Don't buy a 10,000 lb machine if a 7,800 lb one will do most of what you want. The lighter machine is just easier to move. And watch the specs on every part of the hitch system.
 

DrJim

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Feb 19, 2011
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Oak Ridge TN
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General Dentist, including Implant Restorations
Well, maybe I am wrong about trailer weights. Just saw on TV yesterday: A Toyota pulling a 292,000 lb space shuttle. If it's on TV or the internet, it must be true.
 

xcmark

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Feb 28, 2010
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Foxboro , Ma.
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construction
Well, maybe I am wrong about trailer weights. Just saw on TV yesterday: A Toyota pulling a 292,000 lb space shuttle. If it's on TV or the internet, it must be true.

No < I saw the same BS comercial yesterday , I would like to see that same test on a 2% grade up and down hill! I will also agree the internet is full of wizards..........
 

neikris

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Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
14
Location
Clinton, Illinois
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Operator on skid steer, dozer, mini ex, excavator,
We had a kabota kx 121 and had no major issues with it until it started to get up in the hours. Then parts are hard to find and expensive. We ran cat on everything else so we got a cat304ccr it is prob a little big for what you would need. The 303.5 is prob more the size for you. In my area cat support is readily available. Only 45 min from headquarters though. Lol but we have case, john deere, and takeushi dealers in town also. We just have had better support with cat. Any break down on any of my machines i can get parts by 7 am next day. Again your area might be a little different. If you are buying used i would go with less than 1000 hrs and 3yrs old or newer. Just depends how much money you want to throw at it. You can pay from $20k to $50k. If you are only putting less than 500 hrs a year on it you could go with a cheaper brand and it would prob work out for you. But i agree with xcmark on trading backhoe or selling it. We have 2 older ones that dont leave the shop anymore. With the skid steer and mini we can do a much better job and quicker. Especially in tight areas.
 

KSSS

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Feb 27, 2005
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4,336
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Idaho
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excavation
NASA has been moving the shuttles to their final resting places around the Country. I suppose Toyota paid NASA or whoever to hook up to the space shuttle once it got to its final resting place. I personally would walk before I bought one, but its pretty cool commercial.
 

AlloaExcavating

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Aug 7, 2012
Messages
49
Location
Ontario
We had a kabota kx 121 and had no major issues with it until it started to get up in the hours. Then parts are hard to find and expensive. We ran cat on everything else so we got a cat304ccr it is prob a little big for what you would need. The 303.5 is prob more the size for you. In my area cat support is readily available. Only 45 min from headquarters though. Lol but we have case, john deere, and takeushi dealers in town also. We just have had better support with cat. Any break down on any of my machines i can get parts by 7 am next day. Again your area might be a little different. If you are buying used i would go with less than 1000 hrs and 3yrs old or newer. Just depends how much money you want to throw at it. You can pay from $20k to $50k. If you are only putting less than 500 hrs a year on it you could go with a cheaper brand and it would prob work out for you. But i agree with xcmark on trading backhoe or selling it. We have 2 older ones that dont leave the shop anymore. With the skid steer and mini we can do a much better job and quicker. Especially in tight areas.
I kind of find that hard to believe... I own 3 kubota mini ex , 2 brand new and one a 1987 kx71 with about 4500 hours. Had to order some injector seals which had to be ordered in from Japan and that took 1 week. Every other part has been in stock in warehouses and available the next day.

Andrewpond what is your company called and what do you do? I am from the Erin/Georgetown area and my wife was from fergus... Small world.
 

neikris

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Jul 25, 2010
Messages
14
Location
Clinton, Illinois
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Operator on skid steer, dozer, mini ex, excavator,
Drive gear on track started leaking. Had to to take it to two different dealers to get get done. machine was down for over a week. One dealership caused more damage than good and then wanted to charge us for it. After several phone calls thet finally dropped it. The first dealer was going to send it to the second one and gave us a price on it. Well we called them direct and it was half of what we were quoted. Again machine was a good one. The service and parts sucked! Its all in the relationship with your dealer. We have very good success with our cat dealer so we stick with them. I am sure it depends on your area.
 

Go2ndAmend

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Sep 5, 2010
Messages
16
Location
N. California
I'll second the post from DigDeep. A Cat 303.5e series is a wonderful zero-turn machine which should be considered. It does spec. out, with a cab, close to 10,000 lbs so the next smaller model (302.5?) might be a viable option if that is an issue for you. Ther are many good brands of mini ex's to consider, all of which will perform well. I would consider Dealer Support to be a large factor in that decision.
 
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