New Excavator Purchase considerations.

Carl Peter · Oct 15, 2012

I went with the D for a couple reasons it has a few more HP than the E it has a turbo, I don't believe the E does most likely for emissions reasons. It is far less computerized than the E, I do not run attachments so I don't need all the hyd adjustability the E has. And the D was cheaper. Did you demo the E Yet ??

KSSS · Oct 15, 2012

Carl Peter said:
I went with the D for a couple reasons it has a few more HP than the E it has a turbo, I don't believe the E does most likely for emissions reasons. It is far less computerized than the E, I do not run attachments so I don't need all the hyd adjustability the E has. And the D was cheaper. Did you demo the E Yet ??

They just sent me the pricing on the E. The machine itself should be available for me to run this week.

AlloaExcavating · Oct 15, 2012

Kubota has a bit more flow then the deeres. U55 has 19.8 gpm. I own one(dont mulch) and love the machine. Just a thought

Lee-online · Oct 15, 2012

As for the switch, you can get the foot switch put on so it isnt fatiguing on your finger. We do this a lot with hammers.

KSSS · Oct 16, 2012

AlloaExcavating said:
Kubota has a bit more flow then the deeres. U55 has 19.8 gpm. I own one(dont mulch) and love the machine. Just a thought

The Kubota dealer here is the same as the Bobcat dealer. Its an independant rental store that carries both brands. Nearly zero after sale support from the BC side. The Kubota might be better since they have carried Kubota longer, but I just dont trust them.

CooterBrown · Oct 17, 2012

KSSS said:
A friend of mine recently bought a new TB153FR with the upgraded hyd. system. It tested at the dealership for rated flow. He runs a large hoe pac on his machine. I would not buy based on the ability to have a continious on/off but it would be nice. I run a hoe pac a lot on my TK and its fatiguing holding the button down. I have actually wore the plastic covering away on the handle on my previous TB53FR. I just got done going over the CAT 305.5 E series specs. Its a pretty advanced mini ex. I am not aware of any other mini ex having the ability to control flows and numerous other abilities through CAT's COMPASS electronics package. CAT is putting a thumb on a new E they just got in. I am anxious to run it. The price difference between the CAT and TK would fund a US Mower brush mower (in favor of the TK). However the TK does not have as nice of a cab or near the electronics capability of the CAT.

This manufacturer says that the TK can run his mini ex mulcher with its stated flow and psi http://www.advancedforest.com/

A mower attachment may be sufficient for what I want to do, which would be cheaper and be less demanding of the excavator.

Thanks for the offer Andrew I may take you up on that.

Am I understanding you right that they got 25 gpm out of the new TB153? That would not make sense as you cannot have more Hyd hp than engine hp.

Or either there rating the flow at a lower psi. 25 gpm at 3000 psi is 44 hp. You will usually lose 30% engine hp in when driving hyd motors so the Tak will always be underpowered due to low engine hp.

KSSS · Oct 20, 2012

CooterBrown said:
Am I understanding you right that they got 25 gpm out of the new TB153? That would not make sense as you cannot have more Hyd hp than engine hp.

Or either there rating the flow at a lower psi. 25 gpm at 3000 psi is 44 hp. You will usually lose 30% engine hp in when driving hyd motors so the Tak will always be underpowered due to low engine hp.

They did. I cant answer the how, I only know that the one new TB153FR machine in my area makes the rated flow. The owner of that machine is very happy with it. This is their 4th 153 since TK released them in NA. He bought a new one specifically for the high flow capability (as is my reason for updating now).

CooterBrown · Oct 21, 2012

KSSS said:
They did. I cant answer the how, I only know that the one new TB153FR machine in my area makes the rated flow. The owner of that machine is very happy with it. This is their 4th 153 since TK released them in NA. He bought a new one specifically for the high flow capability (as is my reason for updating now).

Interesting. They really needed to up the aux flow and I am glad they did.
What mulchere are you looking at? Torrent makes one for that size machine as well as Baumalite.

KSSS · Oct 21, 2012

CooterBrown said:
Interesting. They really needed to up the aux flow and I am glad they did.
What mulchere are you looking at? Torrent makes one for that size machine as well as Baumalite.

They needed to do something. Mine only makes 14.8 by the book, its pretty bad. Luckily my hoe pac works with that low flow. I complained to TK at ConExpo and was told they had a solution now for that low flow. Apparently they figured it out.

I looking at US Mower if I do a flail type. I will look into the two you mentioned.

stuvecorp · Oct 21, 2012

That is a major improvement on the hyd. flow, has to be class leading now? What other things did TK improve? Has to be a little tough picking between the machines?

lumberjack · Oct 21, 2012

The obvious seeming fix would be to wire the added continuous on switch to swap the momentary button to momentary off for boom functions.

KSSS · Oct 21, 2012

stuvecorp said:
That is a major improvement on the hyd. flow, has to be class leading now? What other things did TK improve? Has to be a little tough picking between the machines?

I have not found a machine to match the TK output. The CAT is tempting due to the simplicity of the boom design, but it also has its limitations due to that same design. The TK salesman is going back to TK to see if we can get some further discounting on price. If that happens it would seal the deal.

stuvecorp · Oct 21, 2012

KSSS said:
I have not found a machine to match the TK output. The CAT is tempting due to the simplicity of the boom design, but it also has its limitations due to that same design. The TK salesman is going back to TK to see if we can get some further discounting on price. If that happens it would seal the deal.

For your third one, they should throw ya a bone. I guess another way to think about it is would you rather have a new TK with a mower/mulcher or one of those evil yellow colored hoes?

KSSS · Oct 22, 2012

stuvecorp said:
For your third one, they should throw ya a bone. I guess another way to think about it is would you rather have a new TK with a mower/mulcher or one of those evil yellow colored hoes?

LOL! Yea that might upset the natural balance of things.

DGODGR · Oct 22, 2012

It's a Tak. It's got the flow. It can't cost more than the yellow one. What more do you want??! You know your gunna buy it.

KSSS · Oct 22, 2012

DGODGR said:
It's a Tak. It's got the flow. It can't cost more than the yellow one. What more do you want??! You know your gunna buy it.

LOL! yea I just trying to get the most for the least $.

hawaiianderelic · Dec 2, 2012

first poster!

KSSS, thanks for all your wonderful words of wisdom! I am am an electrical contractor on Maui Hi and we having difficulty on scheduling and production with our excavation subs. We have gone through three of them. We recently hired an apprentice who comes to us with 8 years as an operator for Nordic PCL on a Cat 425 and we have another apprentice with over 2000hrs. I have spent over 100hours in the past and my last three weekends and some long nights digging into spes and strategies (we have been talking about it for a long time but i am now resolved we need to pull the trigger).

I did a lot of spec comparisons and came up with the Cat 305 or 305.5 (bid dollar bump between the two for 10% more machine, 305.5 has 10%+ HP, weighs 7%+, 8%+ Hydro Flow, 14%+ Stick Dig force, 12% less bucket force, essentially 10% more machine) and aCat 242C. Soils here range dramatically, it is a volcanic island after all, so we are looking for the largest machine that I can tow without a CDL (26000GCWR Hawaii), I speced out a Chevy Silverado 2500 reg cab Vortec® 6.0L Variable Valve Timing V8 FlexFuel engine 4WD , they rate at 25000 GCWR and the truck weighs 10000# , the trailer we speced Zieman 1170 is 15000gvwr and curb weight of 3000lbs (awesome curb# to GVW ratio). that give us 12000lbs payload on the trailer and puts us right there at 25000lbs.

That brings me to my first question, are we kosher on our tow specs?

Read a lot of your posts an you sold me a TB153FR so i looked and low and behold i have a case dealer here on Maui just minutes from my shop (I will ask around how they fair with their service). I can now have Cat and Case bid against each other, I seem to found this to be a common thread when you go buy a new machine from your posts back in 2007 when you first were looking at picking up a TB153FR vs Cat 305D

So i will get as for quotes from Cat and Case on a Mini ex and skid steer package, my question is:

That brings me to my 2nd question, what Case skid steer should we be picking up... Hi Flow is important for us as we will want to get a trenching attachment requiring 30-40GPM, but we will be using it more for select fill and bedding as well as a 6" rock bucket and moving precast, to size a machine to set our larger Pole bases bases and larger manholes would drive the spec of the machine way up for 10% of our backlog, max. the 242C has hiflow option and seems to be common machine, the case SR220 seems to spec out equal, any comments?

Once again, love your sharing your wealth (Knowledge) and the internet for getting it out to those who seek it... exiting times we live in... it is an exciting era to be a part of... hope to make a difference. Kick *ss.

hawaiianderelic · Dec 2, 2012

Phew, that was pent up for some time... sorry if i went off for too long... made a couple mistakes downloading all that... the 305.5 has 12% plus flow over the 305. the rest of the mistakes i am sure will be pointed out shortly, hoping anyhow.

KSSS · Dec 2, 2012

hawaiianderelic said:
first poster!

KSSS, thanks for all your wonderful words of wisdom! I am am an electrical contractor on Maui Hi and we having difficulty on scheduling and production with our excavation subs. We have gone through three of them. We recently hired an apprentice who comes to us with 8 years as an operator for Nordic PCL on a Cat 425 and we have another apprentice with over 2000hrs. I have spent over 100hours in the past and my last three weekends and some long nights digging into spes and strategies (we have been talking about it for a long time but i am now resolved we need to pull the trigger).

I did a lot of spec comparisons and came up with the Cat 305 or 305.5 (bid dollar bump between the two for 10% more machine, 305.5 has 10%+ HP, weighs 7%+, 8%+ Hydro Flow, 14%+ Stick Dig force, 12% less bucket force, essentially 10% more machine) and aCat 242C. Soils here range dramatically, it is a volcanic island after all, so we are looking for the largest machine that I can tow without a CDL (26000GCWR Hawaii), I speced out a Chevy Silverado 2500 reg cab Vortec® 6.0L Variable Valve Timing V8 FlexFuel engine 4WD , they rate at 25000 GCWR and the truck weighs 10000# , the trailer we speced Zieman 1170 is 15000gvwr and curb weight of 3000lbs (awesome curb# to GVW ratio). that give us 12000lbs payload on the trailer and puts us right there at 25000lbs.

That brings me to my first question, are we kosher on our tow specs?

Read a lot of your posts an you sold me a TB153FR so i looked and low and behold i have a case dealer here on Maui just minutes from my shop (I will ask around how they fair with their service). I can now have Cat and Case bid against each other, I seem to found this to be a common thread when you go buy a new machine from your posts back in 2007 when you first were looking at picking up a TB153FR vs Cat 305D

So i will get as for quotes from Cat and Case on a Mini ex and skid steer package, my question is:

That brings me to my 2nd question, what Case skid steer should we be picking up... Hi Flow is important for us as we will want to get a trenching attachment requiring 30-40GPM, but we will be using it more for select fill and bedding as well as a 6" rock bucket and moving precast, to size a machine to set our larger Pole bases bases and larger manholes would drive the spec of the machine way up for 10% of our backlog, max. the 242C has hiflow option and seems to be common machine, the case SR220 seems to spec out equal, any comments?

Once again, love your sharing your wealth (Knowledge) and the internet for getting it out to those who seek it... exiting times we live in... it is an exciting era to be a part of... hope to make a difference. Kick *ss.

TOWING: The CAT 305.5 or the TK TB153FR would put you over on your allowable weight with that trailer using your number of 12K available payload. I like to have a fudge factor on trailers. There are always attachments that go along with the excavator such as hoe pacs, additional buckets and so on. Also if you have a coupler and thumb on the excavator as well as a cabbed unit the excavator will weigh more than the specs may show. I haul my TK with a Towmaster 18DDS (I think that is the model) at any rate it has an 18K capacity. This gives me plenty of allowable payload since I seldom run at max GVW, the trailer will have a long and happy life. My TK with additional buckets, hoe pac on the trailer weighs around 14K. As far as pickups to pull the excavator with. The new GM HD pickups are impressive. If I were planning on pulling a large mini ex around I would spec a 3500 and make it a dually. The cost bump is very minimal and it gives you a lot more pickup. Make sure if you spec the 6.0 that you get the 4.10 rear end. I have the 3:73s in my 2012 2500HD with the 6.0 it pulls well but if I were towing all the time with that kind of weight I would want 4.10s and its the rear end that gives you the most trailering capacity. I think you will find yourself in CDL territory, but you would know best what is required there.

I dont have the 242 specs in front of me but that is a smaller vertical lift skid steer. If you are spending most of your time from ground level to top of cab (referencing lift height) I would spec a radial lift machine. If you are needing a high flow machine I would spec a 246C or 256C CAT verse a CASE 220 or 250. These machines would give you a lot more hydraulic hp. The Case 250 can be had in radial or vertical lift. I have spent some time in a SR250 machine and I really liked it. I have not personally run a 220, my brother runs one (in North Dakota) and he really likes it. I like the specs on the SR220. The CASE machines can be had with a 3000 psi high flow or an enhanced high flow that makes 4K+ psi. I would think the regular high flow would be sufficient to run a trencher.

I signed the purchase order last Friday for the Takeuchi TB153FR with Werk Brau bucket, thumb and coupler. DGODGR was right, I did want the TK.

Good luck with your decisions and keep us posted on what you end up with.

hawaiianderelic · Dec 2, 2012

Do you tow your TK with your 2500 on flat routes?

New Excavator Purchase considerations.

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