Why stay away from Case M Series???

I have heard people say stay away from Case M Series Backhoes. Why, what are the issues? I can Buy one with comparable hours to an L Series for about the same price. Are the L's really that much better? I am looking for a Case hoe. Thank-you for any input.
Paul

I have a 2006 580 super m series 2 and its the best investment that my dad ever made. Strong hoe, very fast, great on fuel, runs circles around the competion, cat, and deere legit. The only things that I'm replacing on it are pilot control switch, left u joint on axle, fixing the ride control, and tightening the swing pins on it. The machine has 5000 hours on it, and thats the only repairs that have been done with it all of its life. The L's I dont know much about, but there still around, and guys like them, so there must be something good about them that I dont know. If I were you I would consider an M over an L because the m is much stronger, better built, more room for you- the operator, and you can resell the M alot more for then the L whenever you want to sell it one day. The only thing that I've heard about the M is that you have to replace the rear brakes at like 4000 hrs, but mine are still good, at 5000 hrs, so somebody started that rumour. What m machine are you looking for? series 1 2 or 3? Whats your budget?

Let me know on your progress,

case 580sm

I can only afford a series 1 or maybe a 2 that's priced low. I was originally shopping for an L and since I started looking, I have been trying to find one with low hours in pretty good shape. I recently started looking at the price of the M series machines and noticed that with about the same hours I can spend only a few dollars more and get an M. I have heard some say they liked the L's better than the M's, and that they had problems with the M's. I had never inquired about what the problems were, or if they were just complaining about nothing.

I just sold my 2006 580 super M it had 10000 hours all I ever did other than regular maintnance I had to replace the front axle due to having foamed filled tires other than that never had a problem after that best machine I ever had hope the super N will give me the same luck

Ran a M 2 for a bit. Nice machine. Hated the 4n1 but thats prefrence. Only thing I saw that I would have done differently is given it a stronger front hood. The owner / boss had managed to wipe out the a/c due to a stick penetrating the grill or something to that effect, and the paint on top of hood will chip from stones rolling off the top of the bucket if you load triaxles alot. The pilot controlls were awesome.

All in all, I doubt I'll own a backhoe, the mini is the thing for me, but if I do, its going to be a ford / new holland lb115

Ok one of the few times I pop in here I see a thread like this. Anyways why stay away from the M's?

Have you run an L before? If you like the K's or the L's you'll hate the M. I'll admit I like the pilots in the M's. I owned 2 M's up until a few months ago an M2 and M3.

My M2 I bought brand new in 08, right from the dealer the intake tube at the turbo was off and dust was found in the turbo. For most of it's life the machine was relatively trouble free but in late 2010 we found small cracks in the boom. Dealer said it was caused due to our hydraulic hammer being too large for the machine...oddly enough it's the one they sold me. We fought with Case with it for a few months and finally my local Deere dealer helped me get the machine running after 4 months.

My M3 was a great machine off the bat, after about 1000hrs we started having electronic issues, mainly with the pilot controls and stabilizer controls. The front axle was replaced at 2900hrs and the rad at 3400. The M3 had some serious issues later in life (late 2011-early 2012).

Both machine have been sold and replaced with competitors machines. I like Case machines, I tried out one of the new Super N's a few weeks ago and it wasn't bad. I spent a couple years in a Series 2 Super L they are by far a better machine. I'd run a low hour Super L any day of the week.

Burnout said:

For most of it's life the machine was relatively trouble free but in late 2010 we found small cracks in the boom. Dealer said it was caused due to our hydraulic hammer being too large for the machine...oddly enough it's the one they sold me.

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Things that make ya go hmmm. :yup

Burnout said:

Have you run an L before? If you like the K's or the L's you'll hate the M.

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Why do you say this? Could you elaborate. I have heard this same comment before, but have never heard why.

ptm600 said:

Why do you say this? Could you elaborate. I have heard this same comment before, but have never heard why.

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i think its mainly because the K's and L's are one of the last "tank built" backhoes from case. they are full mechanical/hydraulic with not too much electrics to get in your way, and will run without the majority of the electrical systems it potentially will have problems with. pilot controls and any other bells and whistles are great when they work, but its annoying losing all control over the backhoes operation due to an electrical fault. please take this as my opinion only though as i have not operated a case m series backhoe or newer...

funkinalive said:

i think its mainly because the K's and L's are one of the last "tank built" backhoes from case. they are full mechanical/hydraulic with not too much electrics to get in your way, and will run without the majority of the electrical systems it potentially will have problems with. pilot controls and any other bells and whistles are great when they work, but its annoying losing all control over the backhoes operation due to an electrical fault. please take this as my opinion only though as i have not operated a case m series backhoe or newer...

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Is this the biggest reason to stay away from M's. I am mainly looking at series 1 M's, they don't have pilot controls. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Series 1 M's have any more electronics than the series 2 L's, do they?

In my opnion, if YOU'RE not good at using a multimeter, stay away from older, electro mechanical equipment. Just find a nice older mechanical machine. If your not going to be doing any of your own repairs, and just hire a mechanic then by all means get whatever. I think that's what the previous poster was trying to convey also.
Any of the machines you buy, the technical service manuals are priceless for making repairs. On the elctro mechanical machines they have countless trouble shooting procedures to direct you to the electrical faults. Or at least narrow it down, which you could never do just winging it.

ptm600 said:

Is this the biggest reason to stay away from M's. I am mainly looking at series 1 M's, they don't have pilot controls. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Series 1 M's have any more electronics than the series 2 L's, do they?

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like i said, i havent operated in an M series machine before. have used newer cats and JCB's and they where nice, but as was said before, chasing faults in electro mechanical equipment can become a problem. if the series 1 M is not heavy on electrics than i dont see why it wouldn't be a good choice, especially if its the same price as the L's. but IMO the 580 L series backhoes from case are the best they ever made, finding one in good condition is worth at least looking at.

Thank-you for all of your input. If anyone else has any helpful advice, I'd appreciate hearing it. I'm going to look at a few machines on Friday 10-26-2012. Thank-you.

I can understand wanting to stay away from electronics, but a standard transmission, mechanical controls (no pilots) series1 or 2 M or SM is basically the same basic animal as an L or SL. There are some cab improvements, but not much that would change any durability. Series 3 SM and up will have the electronic HPCR engine, but I've not seen that many problems with these. For what its worth....

inthedirt said:

I can understand wanting to stay away from electronics, but a standard transmission, mechanical controls (no pilots) series1 or 2 M or SM is basically the same basic animal as an L or SL. There are some cab improvements, but not much that would change any durability. Series 3 SM and up will have the electronic HPCR engine, but I've not seen that many problems with these. For what its worth....

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Thank-you, this has been my basic understanding also.

The L's have a different feel to them that's hard to explain. The M series is when Case started to refine the product they had kinda like Deere did with the E series and Cat did with all the crappy backhoes they've tried to build. The die hard backhoe guys like the speed and precision of a good backhoe. The M's started slowing down to increase precision for a newer operator but you lose some of the "feel". The M's also lack in the reliability of the L and K series. The series 2 L's are a great machine, I prefer them over the M by far. As was said earlier the series 1 machines don't have the electronic crap in them the M2's and 3's do.

Just look for a good machine that hasn't been obviously abused, check for cracks in the boom and the tower where the hoe mounts to the tractor. Check for the usual leaks, any weird noises when it's running and once you get it down to a machine you really like take some oil samples and take em in to the local Cat dealer for testing.

Went and looked at 3 machines over the past couple of days. Just like my luck usually goes, the one that I wanted sold before I got there. Tried to make a deal on the second choice machine, and they were a little more than I wanted to spend. I guess I'll keep looking over the winter. Glad I'm not in a hurry. Hopefully I find one before next spring. Again, thank-you for your help.

We've had every model 580 from the B to the M. Saying that, I had a '95 model Super L that I bought new, traded it in 2009 for a 2007 model Super M 2. Both machines cab with a/c, but that's about where the them being alike end... The super M2 has 4x4, ride control, pilot controls, and extendahoe. As far as speed and power, I'd rate them about the same. The bigger cab of the Super M is nice, BUT it seems more like a greenhouse. We ran the Super L 14 years, and I never did tint the windows. After the first few 90 degree days with the Super M, I tinted the windows on it. The a/c just wouldn't keep up. The Super L had doors on both sides, the Super M just the left hand side. Not a big deal until you go to clean the lower windows on the right front corner of the cab, but you kinda have to stand on your head to get to them. I grew up with the 3 lever controls with foot swing on the backhoes, but honestly I run a trackhoe most of the time, so I really like the pilot controls. Ride control is AWESOME. This isn't the first extendahoe I've had, had a K and an M with it before. Which brings up another point..... If you are going to be doing any kind of production work, or in hard to dig material, I'd stay away from a straight L or M. I never owned a L, just a Super L, but we did have an M, and I have ran a few L's... The K, Super K, Super L, and Super M are a heavier built, more powerful machine then the straight L and M... The M we had, the tractor and loader looked the same size, but you could see the swing tower and backhoe boom were noticeably lighter built. At 2,000 hours, the pins and bushings in the swing tower and backhoe boom had more slop in them than my Super K and Super L at over 5,000 hours. My Super K was a '93 model and the Super L a '95, in hard clay they would blow the M away in production. Same in rock, the Super K, Super L or Super M would either rip sandstone, drag the tractor backwards, or even lift the front end off the ground. The M would just stall out if you hooked something hard. The M was 4x4, and did good at loader work, but honestly, on dry ground I could load the back bucket on the 2 wheel drive Super L with dirt (for more traction), and out-push the M. It just had that much more power. The M was a lot easier on fuel, it would run about a day and a half, where the Super L or Super M, you'll be fueling them after about 10 hours...

I know this was kinda long winded, but I just like to give as much info as I can. Given the choice of a Super L or a straight M, I'd buy a Super L again in a heartbeat. But if I could get a Super M, I'd probably go that route myself.

Thank-you handtpipeline. This is the kind of info. Iv'e been looking for.

Ive run so many 580s and 90s I cant remember. The bubble cab is nice for the room but does get prett dam hot. Series 2 ms are dogs over the road, throttle response sucks compared to an L. The front end is a bit smoother as well as the back. I could care less for pilot controls, 4stick I think is best for street work. I agree about the change in "feel." I still like Ls the best, fast snappy hydralics, plenty of power, simple reliable machine.

The super N is a whole dif animal. I just hit 2,000hrs last week. Lifting and pushing its unbelievable. Over the road its fast and smooth. Tractor itself much more top heavy and there is a noticable dif in the steering. Comfort and power is great but L still best built, best feel, simplest machine.