New Excavator Purchase considerations.

KSSS · Sep 22, 2012

I am looking at updating excavators. Currently running an 07 Taki TB153FR at about 2500 hours.

I want more hyd flow this time. The newest TK 153 makes 23 gpm (current machine makes 14.8). I want to put a mower/mulcher type head on the new one and I would like more flow for hoe packing. So the new machine must make flow.

The short list is CAT 305.5D, Deere 60D and TK 153.

I demoed the CAT. Its nice, excellent breakout, a little slow on the swing curcuit. Good track power. Overall its a competent machine but I wasn't overwhelmed by its performance. This D series only makes about 18 gpm.

Demo to follow on 60D.

A friend of mine just bought a 2012 TK 153 (replaced 07 153) so i will spend sometime in his machine.

I have been running a 53/153 since 03. Its hard to beat this machine for its versatility. The only downside I see is its a complicated mechanism on the side to side boom. There are a lot zerks and thus a wear opportunities. We grease the heck out these machines, and at 2500 I see wear, nothing excessive yet, but I dont want to own this machine at 5000 hours. There is no doubt this side to side system is more versatile than a typical swing boom but as always there are no free lunches. Keeping it much longer will result in an unacceptable to me trade allowance, so its time to update and at the same time increase my capability.

Thoughts?

Yellowdog · Sep 23, 2012

KSSS said:
I am looking at updating excavators. Currently running an 07 Taki TB153FR at about 2500 hours.

I want more hyd flow this time. The newest TK 153 makes 23 gpm (current machine makes 14.8). I want to put a mower/mulcher type head on the new one and I would like more flow for hoe packing. So the new machine must make flow.

The short list is CAT 305.5D, Deere 60D and TK 153.

I demoed the CAT. Its nice, excellent breakout, a little slow on the swing curcuit. Good track power. Overall its a competent machine but I wasn't overwhelmed by its performance. This D series only makes about 18 gpm.

Demo to follow on 60D.

A friend of mine just bought a 2012 TK 153 (replaced 07 153) so i will spend sometime in his machine.

I have been running a 53/153 since 03. Its hard to beat this machine for its versatility. The only downside I see is its a complicated mechanism on the side to side boom. There are a lot zerks and thus a wear opportunities. We grease the heck out these machines, and at 2500 I see wear, nothing excessive yet, but I dont want to own this machine at 5000 hours. There is no doubt this side to side system is more versatile than a typical swing boom but as always there are no free lunches. Keeping it much longer will result in an unacceptable to me trade allowance, so its time to update and at the same time increase my capability.

Thoughts?

I have seen on another site (tractorbynet) where I guy put a powerpack on a mini. It was a very cool modification. 23 gpm won't be much for a mulcher as you know. It'll allow you to do ditches and slopes of small material but I don't think it will mulch the bigger stuff very well. With a power power you could really make a mulching machine.

I don't know much about mini's other than the Bobcat 335 I bought. It only makes 19 gpm and though I have considered putting small mulcher on it, it doesn't have an easy to clean cooling system and it would just frustrate me. I'm used to double that gpm and more pressure with the skid.

Good luck.

KSSS · Sep 23, 2012

There is a mulcher made here in Idaho that would work with that GPM. I may just put a brush mower from US Mower. This is for canals and irrigation ditch banks.

Yellowdog · Sep 23, 2012

KSSS said:
There is a mulcher made here in Idaho that would work with that GPM. I may just put a brush mower from US Mower. This is for canals and irrigation ditch banks.

That could be some good niche work on the small stuff. When I was considering it, I was trying to find a solution for muddy areas or creeks where the blackberry brambles were out of control. If you get one make sure you post a review!

stuvecorp · Sep 24, 2012

I looked up the Case/Kobelco 55 size and they had it listed at just over 21 gpm?

Colorado Digger · Sep 24, 2012

We have a Bobcat E55 on demo and it is a very nice machine. Not pushing my side just remarking on the machine. I would love to try some other machines but given our relationship with Bobcat things seem to work out well.
I have one mini with 3500 hours and the other has over 6000 so I understand the need to upgrade.

DGODGR · Sep 25, 2012

I have a friend who bought the Cat because it had the best claimed flow (running a helical pier motor). Be sure to make them put flow meters on it before you buy. My friend was very disapointed to find that the actual flow was less than the claimed flow. Working pressures must be considered too. Often flow can be reached at lower working pressures but not at the required pressure. Do your homework before you buy.
Another thought is that it will be way less expensive to re-bush than replace. I'm sure you could do the work yourself. You've been talking up the Taks forever. I'm surprised you are even considering others. My mini has about 3,500 on it now. I don't see replacing it any time soon. The trade in value was not very good, a couple years ago, so I think I'm going to run it into the ground. Trade in value be damned because I love not having payments.

KSSS · Sep 25, 2012

The 153 has does things that a normal swing mini cant do. However when its time trade and upgrade I will look at everything. Even on skid steers where I am pretty set in stone on CASE machines, I try to demo any comparable machine if nothing else it makes me feel good about my decision. If I did not need the additional flow I would continue to run the TK for at least another year or two. However my values on my TK are coming in at 25-30K trade value right now. A couple more years and 1200 or so more hours and your lucky to see 20K on trade value. I just hate to start over on a 70K mini ex purchase. I dont have any payments on my TK and I like that but I still need to keep working on new markets and ideas which in this case means more flow. I will check on the CASE 55. The CASE dealer looked up the aux. gpm flow and its was not that great but if its coming in around 22-23 that would work. Interesting point on actual flows.

stuvecorp · Sep 25, 2012

I've got a shiny new Kobelco55srx brochure here and in the spec part they list 15 gpm but on page 6 they list 21.7 gpm? Not sure what the deal is with that? The Case has 15 listed as well in the online spec sheet? The 55 aren't 'full' zero tail swing?

I see they do offer an optional 2nd auxiliary hydraulics, fully awesome!

KSSS · Sep 25, 2012

stuvecorp said:
I've got a shiny new Kobelco55srx brochure here and in the spec part they list 15 gpm but on page 6 they list 21.7 gpm? Not sure what the deal is with that? The Case has 15 listed as well in the online spec sheet? The 55 aren't 'full' zero tail swing?

I see they do offer an optional 2nd auxiliary hydraulics, fully awesome!

That must have been the numbers we were looking at. 15 gpm doesnt get it done, 21-22 makes a big difference.

toomuchtime · Sep 28, 2012

I have a 305.5 D with a rock hound mulching head. Works great plenty of power. My only complaint is no continuos button other then that the power to weight and reach ratio is perfect!

KSSS · Oct 1, 2012

toomuchtime said:
I have a 305.5 D with a rock hound mulching head. Works great plenty of power. My only complaint is no continuos button other then that the power to weight and reach ratio is perfect!

They quoted me the D but offered the E for $2K more and a 6 week wait which is no problem. What are your thoughts on the Rockhound attachment as far as durability? Which model are you running?

toomuchtime · Oct 1, 2012

The e was not out when I purchased my machine. I had to order my d it took about 4-6 weeks. I know the E has the newer motor with more emissions equipment not sure if thats good or bad lol. I run the 30EXHD i have maybe 200 hours on it. So far it has been flawless. Really knocks stuff down quick i would say material up to 5" is the sweet spot theres plenty of power to run it. I ordered my machine with the electronic coupler which posed alittle problem with the 30exhd cat had to grind the coupler abit for the attachment to mate up to the machine. I also had to move my thumb to my secondary circuit in order to use it with the rockhound saddle. I use this machine on alot of steep slopes and uneven terrain I would not want a heavier attachment. My machine is the long stick so you can really get the mower out there. If your working on so so level stuff a 40" head would be fine. Heres a pic of me mowing some little stuff just cleaning up. let me know if you have any more questions. I demo'd all of the big names before I bought my machine the cat was the winner hands down for me only complaint I really have are the controls are alittle slow and theres no continuos button for hydros these are real little things in the big scheme of things IMO

KSSS · Oct 1, 2012

I appreciate the info. I have been considering the 40 sized head either from Rockhound or US Mower. After hearing your thoughts maybe the 30 would be better. I will be using this on irrigation ditches and canals primarily so I will be stretched out constantly. The E series has the constant on switch for the aux. flow. You can also preset the hyd flow for different attachments. Thats cool. The Deere 60D which I ran on Friday, and will take on a job tomorrow, is 5K more than CAT and they are giving me 5K less on my trade. The Deere also makes 22gpm at 2k psi, thats not great specs. The CAT is a little better. Still waiting on the final numbers from Takeuchi. The TK wins the psi, gpm battle. Have you had to replace any of the flails on the mower? The CAT is a little slow. The Deere was nice but not 10K nicer than the CAT.

CAT gave me some resale numbers. The Deere they compared was the 50D as there are not many 60's out there, but the TK beats both in auction and retail used pricing (by a slim margin over the 305.5). I thought that was interesting. The Deere was not even close but its not really apples to apples.

toomuchtime · Oct 1, 2012

i have not replaced any teeth yet but i bought a extra full set when i bought it still sitting in the box! The takuchi was nice but i was not a fan of the cab at all. Another big thing for me is the the auger and hammer are interchangeble with my 289c. Dealer support here for cat is amazing another huge deal for me. the deere was my second favorite but I still preferred the cat. Also the 4 way angle blade is real nice on my cat i use it alot more then i thought i would. The deere I demoed did not have it not sure if its a option. Also if you can check out the electronic coupler it awesome I think i was about a 2k option but for me its worth it. bucket changes from inside the cab are awesome!

toomuchtime · Oct 1, 2012

oh ya and with 30 head on uneven terrain with a fully extended boom it will wake you up! lol I would not want to try it with the 40. the drum speed is also perfect on the 30 matched to the 305.5. I m sure the 40 would work great but i have not tried. I cannot stand waiting for a mulching head to spool up after hitting dense brush. I rarley experince this with the 30.

CooterBrown · Oct 5, 2012

Takeuchi is getting 25.6 GPM 3000psi from 39 engine hp. That would be impossible. Have flow checked on all machines as has been posted. Also need to consider which machines contols and travel work best with a constant aux flow on each machine. Some machines will perform better with the same aux flow espeially when adjusting boom up and down. Als need to look at stability over the side and reach as that will be the position you use most when mowing ditches and canals. Really need 30+ gpm to be really effective mulching.

Carl Peter · Oct 5, 2012

I have a Cat 305.5 D with about 100 hrs on it now....love it.. everything I expected and more !!

ARPlante · Oct 10, 2012

KSSS- I wouldn't worry about having a button for the continuous hydraulic flow to a mower. We installed one of those switches in our 50D and since the day I installed it, I think I have used it 3 times (have 1300 hrs on machine now). The problem with a continuous flow switch and a mower is that you need to be able to constantly adjust the boom and stick of the excavator to allow the mower to flow over the contours of the ground. With the continous flow switched on, I found that any boom up, stick out, or combination of the two moves was next to impossible as the mower was sucking quite a bit of flow from the main functions. With that said, as long as whatever machine you purchase has comfortable controls to activate the secondary hydraulic circuit for the mower, I would not let machine choice come down to it having the continous switch or not.

PS- This same situation applies to our 160D as well when I run the mulcher. I found it was a very short learning curve to getting the hang of cycling the mower on and off.

Shoot me an questions you might have- we've been through a few of these setups.

KSSS · Oct 11, 2012

A friend of mine recently bought a new TB153FR with the upgraded hyd. system. It tested at the dealership for rated flow. He runs a large hoe pac on his machine. I would not buy based on the ability to have a continious on/off but it would be nice. I run a hoe pac a lot on my TK and its fatiguing holding the button down. I have actually wore the plastic covering away on the handle on my previous TB53FR. I just got done going over the CAT 305.5 E series specs. Its a pretty advanced mini ex. I am not aware of any other mini ex having the ability to control flows and numerous other abilities through CAT's COMPASS electronics package. CAT is putting a thumb on a new E they just got in. I am anxious to run it. The price difference between the CAT and TK would fund a US Mower brush mower (in favor of the TK). However the TK does not have as nice of a cab or near the electronics capability of the CAT.

This manufacturer says that the TK can run his mini ex mulcher with its stated flow and psi http://www.advancedforest.com/

A mower attachment may be sufficient for what I want to do, which would be cheaper and be less demanding of the excavator.

Thanks for the offer Andrew I may take you up on that.

New Excavator Purchase considerations.

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