Choosing between CTLs and would welcome any input

Thanks for the great advice and for taking the time to post. I'm thinking I'm going to get a demo set up with the 333D too. I was thinking the Tak would out push all of them JD included, maybe I'm wrong. I guess that's what demos are for. lol. I'm drawn to the simplicity of the Taks. I work in mining with a lot of hours on machines and a lot of abuse. It's always electrical problems when the hours start adding up. It's an easy thing in a mine, just radio the shop. Me on my own with an out of warranty machine is a different thing. You didn't mention the Cat machine....

Not at all impressed with the day to day serviceability of the Deere machines. You can't remove the engine panels without the loader arms in the up position. Not much logic in this. What if the machine won't start? How do you get into the engine compartment? Your daily maintenance items- filters, dipstick, water separator, air filters, etc. should easy to get at.

That's an excellent point to bring up. It's been my experience that if it isn't easy to get to, it often doesn't get done.

labradorguy said:

That's an excellent point to bring up. It's been my experience that if it isn't easy to get to, it often doesn't get done.

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That's my primary point, and the panels really aren't that easy to get in and out and they rattle after the machine gets some real time on it. Its not that big of a deal, but unless the loader arms are up you end up getting grease all over your shirt when you reach around the back of the boom to pull out or reinsert the panels.

Digdeep said:

Not at all impressed with the day to day serviceability of the Deere machines. You can't remove the engine panels without the loader arms in the up position. Not much logic in this. What if the machine won't start? How do you get into the engine compartment? Your daily maintenance items- filters, dipstick, water separator, air filters, etc. should easy to get at.

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Not true.
Panels are easily slid out the back with the boom all the way down. Dipstick is up top with all other fluid fills with the hood open. Access to major components is by far better than most.

MXZ said:

Not true.
Panels are easily slid out the back with the boom all the way down. Dipstick is up top with all other fluid fills with the hood open. Access to major components is by far better than most.

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I would argue that the term "easily" is subjective. How do you get to the starter or alternator if the machine won't start? Can you clean out the radiator/cooler effectively with the loader arms in the down position, tension belts, drain water separator, etc.? I'm also not a fan of the lift path because it has limited reach in most of the lift cycle and impact unloading flat bed trucks.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but these are my observations in operating and looking them over with my buddy who is a JD salesman. I do think they did a lot of nice things over their last series- improved the A/C, air ride seat option, improved their cooling (I think they might have had the industry's poorest), hydraulic fan, etc.

labradorguy said:

I'm drawn to the simplicity of the Taks. I work in mining with a lot of hours on machines and a lot of abuse. It's always electrical problems when the hours start adding up.

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when you demo a bobcat try to get one with stick and foot controls, i wouldn't have a bobcat any other way, it's even more simple than the Tak. Also ask the dealer if they can get a pre-tier IV T770 still.

I agree with dirthog try out the t770, the t870 is a very specialized machine not many people need the extra size and weight.

Will you ever be loading trucks?

When it comes to digging in the dirt, this total personal prefernce. Where te bobcat sinces is attachments. Bobcat has made attachments a main focus and there is very little additional equipment that needs to be added. 99% of attachments, the most that has to be added is the 7 pin cable, the electronics are already on the machine. The cooling is designed for high demands, nothing has to be added. The forrestry cutter is the only attachment that require a package which 90% added guards. We recently demoed a S850 against pretty much every other large skidsteer for a asphalt company. This machine runs a highflow planner all day. Per the operater, the bobcat was hands down the winner. The big cat was a close second, but failed because it's hydraulic would overheat every 15 minutes. The bobcat never did. That said, I don't want to brag the bobcat up as the hands down best machine. Try them all and the one you like is the one you buy. The attachment capabilites of the bobcat is the top feature of the machines

@928G Boy. Simple is what I like. After growing up with POS cable dozers and their "controls", any of these new machines would spoil a person. Stick/foot sounds like a good idea. I'm liking what I see on the 770 specs. I originally just compared the bigger machines from the major players since I figured I would end up using it like a little dozer half the time but when I look at the 770, I actually like it's specs a bit better. Were there a lot of changes going into tier IV? No, less than 10% truck loading. Thanks for your thoughts.

Just heard from Cat. 299D approx. 71k, 299D XHP about 78k. I think I'm going with a Marshall Tree Saw over the mulcher. So I won't need hi-flo any longer. That's a possible saver but it's a few days till I get to play with the tree saw so not confirmed yet. Things just got more complicated. lol.

TE=labradorguy;378350]I've lined up some demos, but just like test driving a new car, a few minutes in the seat isn't going to tell you everything. I'd welcome any thoughts about choosing between the following.

I will be using the machine for heavy farm work, land clearing, light grading, and some logging. Right now looking at getting a heavy bucket, some type of log /brush grapple, and a Marshall tree saw (or something similar). I can see a mulching head as being a possibility in the near future.
ive run equipment for 50 years.for skidsteer or loader get a jcb because of sidedoor entrance,you can always get out the door.ive had d-8 cats for years but for a small machine ive got a case 420 skidsteer with add-on tracks from right track from edmonton.compare $4000.00 to an extra 20 to$30000.00 extra on a new machine.levelled out about 500 truckloads in winter mud and ice and this spring to clean out my fish pond.saved $50000.00 by doing a lot myself.tracks are low maintainence,fully repairable,will work in mud where tires wont and have 3 to 5 times the traction.im retired but i dont mind helping not to make the mistkes i did buying the wrong equipment
Cat 299D XHP- Got to love Cat, but a dealer quote is never a happy event...
Tak TL12- It looks like a no-nonsense horse
Terex PT 100G- Looks awesome on paper... but I read a lot of negative comments
Bobcat 870- You can't not throw in a Bobcat. Their advantage videos convinced me of one thing, they are great at marketing to people who don't know any better... Sort of scary.
possibly a Deere 333D or Kubota SVL90 but they are not high on the list.

I'm looking forward to hearing others thoughts on how these stack up.

Thanks for reading.[/QUOTE]

Bobcatdan said:

When it comes to digging in the dirt, this total personal prefernce. Where te bobcat sinces is attachments. Bobcat has made attachments a main focus and there is very little additional equipment that needs to be added. 99% of attachments, the most that has to be added is the 7 pin cable, the electronics are already on the machine. The cooling is designed for high demands, nothing has to be added. The forrestry cutter is the only attachment that require a package which 90% added guards. We recently demoed a S850 against pretty much every other large skidsteer for a asphalt company. This machine runs a highflow planner all day. Per the operater, the bobcat was hands down the winner. The big cat was a close second, but failed because it's hydraulic would overheat every 15 minutes. The bobcat never did. That said, I don't want to brag the bobcat up as the hands down best machine. Try them all and the one you like is the one you buy. The attachment capabilites of the bobcat is the top feature of the machines

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bobcatdan i was just wondering what kind of cold mill were you running and what was the width of the mill?

check for tipping

I'm not familiar with the machines you listed,but I would suggest that you test the machines you arelooking at on different levels of Terrain. I owned a very old international backhoe /frontloader for years and now have a bobcat 753. The bobcat still scares me when going up steep inclines (you have to go backwards) and when I have to be slanted sidewise. It increases my prayer life! I just keep praying that I wont tip over. Id get myself in some precarious situations with the international but it still took more to get to tipping. My brother tipped our family backhoe so any mschine can tip. That said, the bobcat has some advantages. Because I can see the bucket and can easily gauge how effective my efforts are I find the bobcat bucket more useful than the bucket I had on the international even though the international bucket was much larger and the machine more powerful. It's small size makes it easier to do some jobs and i find myself tackling places i couldnt touch with the larger machine. I cant see pulling tree stumps with the bobcat.nor could I pull up the boulders I did with the backhoe. If you plan on using your machine logging be prepared for mud and getting stuck. With the backhoe you can usually grab a boulder or tree and pull yourself out.with the bobcat they have tracks you can put over your wheels like you do with chains. I have some but haven't. Had the opportunity to try them out. Good luck

labradorguy said:

@928G Boy. Simple is what I like. After growing up with POS cable dozers and their "controls", any of these new machines would spoil a person. Stick/foot sounds like a good idea. I'm liking what I see on the 770 specs. I originally just compared the bigger machines from the major players since I figured I would end up using it like a little dozer half the time but when I look at the 770, I actually like it's specs a bit better. Were there a lot of changes going into tier IV? No, less than 10% truck loading. Thanks for your thoughts.

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Tons of changes going into tier IV, way more complexity. Pre-tier IV T770 engines had a fully mechanical injection system like every diesel bobcat before it, now Bobcat and the rest of the manufacturers are being forced into running electronic common rail injection and DPF filters on anything over 75hp. The new wiring harness is a scary looking thing.

http://www.bobcat.com/loaders/tier4/technologies

I was wondering if you were loading trucks because if you were, a vertical path machine like the T770 would really outshine vs. the Tak.

These new diesels are scary things. I don't know as much as I should about the diesels in the CTLs, but I know about trucks. I've not had a good Ford diesel since the 7.3L. The 6.0L injectors were a joke, the 6.4 and 6.7's are fuel hogs, plus those cleaning modes suck. I'm guessing the the CTL engines are probably about the same. I don't get it. We have to put up with all this crap on our engines, but the Chinese get to belch whatever crap they want to into the atmosphere...

Just thought I'd throw this out there into the Tier 4 discussion.....All JCB CTL's with the T4i compliant JCB Ecomax engine are compliant without the use of DPF or SCR. Electronic controlled engine with hi-tech combustion technology along with EGR. No after-treatment required from the largest displacement engine in a CTL (as compared to the "big 3").