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Need some purchasing advice from those who have been there...

labradorguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
71
Location
Kentucky
Hello all.

I stumbled upon this forum while googling some info on different machines. I'm impressed with the collective knowledge here so I thought I would humbly ask for some purchasing advice....

Here is my situation, I'll try to explain it as thoroughly as I can... I own three hundred plus acres south of St. Louis and am looking at getting another 300. It was a farm way back in the day and for the last 20 years at least it has been used only as a hunting property. I'd like to get it back in shape for cattle, timber, and as a place spend time with my boys. I've been trying to keep it up with a 65hp tractor and a bush hog, but it is a losing battle. A couple of the fields are overgrown. 90% is 6" diameter and smaller hardwoods and cedars, a few bigger trees sprinkled in. The woods have encroached 20 yards or so past the fence lines and out into all the fields, there is grading work to do, a couple old ponds that are filled with sediment, and a lot of TSI work in the woods. Plus there is all the usual never ending farm related tasks to be done.

I've considered a CTL, a small dozer, an excavator, etc... and have come back full circle to the CTL. I was looking at purchasing a large CTL to do several things, but being Missouri, there is a lot of rock outcropping and stobs and I was wondering about the rubber tracks and how they would last. Does anyone sell steel tracks on CTLs? I considered getting a 100hp machine and pushing out all the brush it could handle, then chainsawing anything that was too large. I then considered a mulching attachment and a pt100g as an option and labor saver. It would clean things up nicely and I think I could make a few bucks on the side working in area subdivisions and opening up congested wooded lots in backyards. Everyone around here does "Bobcat" work, but nobody is advertising mulching as a way to open up backyards. It was just a thought as a way to help offset the cost of a machine.

I was leaning towards a pt100g with a mulcher, dozer blade, and maybe a backhoe attachment but I read a lot of negative comments about downtime, lack of support, and expensive repairs, so I went back to maybe a Cat or a Tak for reliability.

I've kicked this around so much that I feel like I am running in circles so if anyone would be kind enough to throw a few ideas out, I would sincerely appreciate it. Sometimes a person needs a fresh perspective. Many thanks.
 

Colorado Digger

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Carbondale,co
Bobcat makes a t870 I believe with steel tracks. We demo'ed one a few years ago and it was awesome. Probably set you back 100k with the forestry package and mulcher. Good Luck!
 

05rammer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
170
Location
Missouri
Bobcat no longer makes steel tracks. I know Supertrak sells a steel track conversion kit for Cat ctls. The guy at Supertrak told me if you knew what you were doing they could be changed out in four hours.
 

stumpjumper83

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,974
Location
Port Allegany, pa
Occupation
Movin dirt
First question that comes to mind, is the 65hp tractor the only thing you have right now? Is it 4x4 and does it have a front end loader? I would suggest upsizing the tractor to something that can comfortably pull a 12 - 15' bushog, that will save weeks of time bushoggin. Trust me, we have 80 acres to mow every year and the 10' is 3x as fast as the 6' we had and mows better.

Personally I own both a gehl ctl70 which is a tak 140 & a deere 550g dozer w/ winch. I grade lawns and load topsoil and backfill ditch with my ctl. I build roads, skid timber, unstick trucks, and re-build ponds with the dozer. My choice for you would be a 550 or 650 deere, g & later or a cat d5c hystat or d5g, find a used machine with a winch and forestry protection package, then buy a blade rake. That machine will grade, build road, clear field, skid timber, pull your stuck tractor out, very handy thing around a farm. Probably the hardest thing to do with a dozer that a ctl is better at is pond cleaning, but if yuor cleaning alot of ponds you will go to an excavator quick. But dont take my word for it, rent both for a few days at a time and see what you need.
 
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eric12

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
236
Location
new york
look at a fecon ftx 100. you can put skid steer attachments on them, they have single grouser steel tracks and a mulcher really meant to clear woods and brush. it would probably clean out your ponds ok too if you pump them out dry. just a thought.
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,321
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
I run a mulcher on a 465 using steel tracks on a wheeled machine. If you determine that a CTL/Skid Steer is your solution steel tracks may be an option. Running a mulcher requires a lot hyd hp (requiring a large machine) and the attachments are expensive. You will have a lot of money tied up in equipment. I would just want to make sure that there is enough work to justify the purchase. Once you have cleaned your property you likely wont need it again for your own use. I doubt any one machine will accomplish all that your going to want to get done. So I would try and purchase the machine that will keep you from renting as much as possible. Other options are bringing in someone with a large chipper. You could cut and collect the trees and let someone custom chip them. Most farmers here own a backhoe. Not great at anyone one thing but you can do a variety of different work with them. Rent an excavator for the ponds would be money well spent. How much do you anticipate spending on this purchase? That would help a lot with the suggestions.
 

labradorguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
71
Location
Kentucky
How much do you anticipate spending on this purchase? That would help a lot with the suggestions.[/QUOTE]

I really appreciate the feedback on this guys. It sometimes helps to get a fresh perspective. To answer the questions, I have the 65hp 4x4, a super heavy bush hog, a finish mower, a box blade, and a loader on the front. That's it. I'm happy with the tractor. It does what I need and I'm planning on putting cattle in, so bush hogging the large fields will hopefully be a one time deal, so I won't really need a batwing.

I've got about 100k to work with. You're right, my problem is that no one machine will do everything. I'm going to have to do a combination of buy and rent to cover all my bases. I'm thinking a large CTL would be really handy and would stay busy even after the initial pass through of cleanup work. I don't know if I could say the same for a dozer or track loader. My worries are those rubber tracks. I come from a background of strip mining and I've seen what that rock does to steel tracks on a D11, these little rubber jobs just don't seem up to the task for where I am and I'm not doing any work where I need to worry about someone's lawn. IDK...

I'm still trying to get a handle on the mulcher head. I can't get a good estimate of what I could charge per hour with one. Obviously, I can't do the area average of $40/hr for "Bobcat work", but with nobody else near doing anything similar, it's kind of a guesing game.

I've used a tac CTL to knock down some impressive sized oaks that were encroaching on a pasture. I was surprised how much pushing power that machine had... I took them down, piled them and burned them. I was fairly simple, but would I want to do that everyday and expect my machine to hold up... I don't know that answer either...

How about these CTL "dozer blades" are they the real deal? A dealer told me it would work as well as a D3, I find that hard to believe... Any experience? I looked at them and the first thing that crossed my mind was what would happen if I hooked a rock outcrop with the edge of the blade while pushing?? Boomerang shape blade?

Thanks again Gents.
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,321
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
The dozer attachments have little value IMHO. A CTL even a large one does not have enough track on the ground to help with the tortoising effect. I have heard of guys getting good with them but its not an easy attachment to work effectively. I know of one guy that uses one to backfill drain tile. That is about the most ligitiment purpose I can think of for one of those. While any large CTL will push I doubt you would see it equaling a D-3 in tough conditions (not enough tractive effort and certainly not built for the same application as a dozer). However could it do 75% of what a D-3 can or would do in most applications? I think it would. When it comes to buying equipment, it comes down at least to me, to ROI or return of investment. A CTL or backhoe could be kept busy doing a number of different tasks making it easier to spend the money. I would just be careful about banking on additional work to subsidize or justify the purchase. Even working on the side gets more involved than what it would first appear, and you cant run a CTL for what a wheeled machine can run for (on a strictly hourly basis). If there are guys working for 50 an hour no one is going to call you at twice that for a new CTL unless its obviously too wet for a wheeled machine (or you have a cool attachment).
 

labradorguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
71
Location
Kentucky
My thoughts exactly on that dozer blade.... It's nice to get a confirmation. I seldom take a salesman at his word.
I wouldn't plan on any work to help justify a purchase, and especially expect that to help pay for it, that's a recipe for disaster if I ever heard one. I was thinking about the "cool attachment" thing though. I could see that as a really handy tool in my application and it would have some possibilities of generating some income down the road as well. Everybody and his brother around here advertises bobcat and backhoe work. I could name twenty guys there alone. When everyone is done cutting each others throats for the work, you can barely pay for your diesel.... I've always known that the trick to making a buck is to be doing something that nobody else is doing. The PT100g mulcher got my attention there. I'm still worried about undercarriages and rubber tracks though.... Decisions, decisions.....
 

labradorguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
71
Location
Kentucky
Look at the Cat 299d xhp.

It looks like a horse... Do you have one? I see you're from Missouri too. Are you in the hills or the prairie? Am I thinking correctly about the rubber tracks and the rock here (or the stumps/stobs after running a fecon through)?
 

stuvecorp

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
307
Location
lake wissota, wisconsin
Buy a decent Takeuchi 150 or Case 465 with steel over the tire tracks and rent a mid size excavator(130 or 160 size) for a month. I would try different attachments on the skid/ctl to see which are the best for you.
 

rigandig

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Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
157
Location
Va
Stans 1.jpgStans 16.jpgStans 21.jpgI bought a 289C last Jan. I bought the Cat Industrial Grapple at the same time. Have added a fork attachment,a post hole digger attachment, and a Marshall Tree Saw since then. I just recently finished clearing an acre on a nearby mountain top. That area has plenty of rock outcroppings plus there were a lot of stumps at varying heights to work around. The rubber tracks held up ok. There are definitley more cuts and gouges in them than when I started though. I have almost 800 hours on the machine and I expect I will get the normal average 1000 hours out of the tracks, maybe more, but anything more will be a bonus. I figured out rather quickly how to get the tracks back on after getting on a rock or stump with half of the track. And I found that keeping a close check on the adjustment helped to keep from "spitting' them off. I think the spec is 1 1/8 inch sag, measured from the inside track face to one of the bottom rollers with the tracks raised up in the air via the bucket/tool. I kept them at about an inch, not banjoed, but a bit tighter than the spec. Steel tracks would be helpful for this problem, but have not checked into them other than to determine that they are available aftermarket.
The size of the tree you can push over will vary , depending on species, and ground conditions. A 6 inch oak in one place can go over easy, while in another, will be a problem. The 299 is , if memory serves, about 500 lbs more weight and more HP, so you can expect an increase over what I can do with the 289. You will need the high flow hyds if you go with the mulcher/fecon attachment.
A few pics of the mountain top job site.
 
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05rammer

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Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
170
Location
Missouri
I am about 60mi west of St. Louis along the Missouri river, its hill here but not as bad as it is down south. I don't have yet, been looking preety hard just don't have enough funds yet. You can get steel tracks for them, either from Supertrak or someine told me Cat is coming out with them.
 

labradorguy

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Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
71
Location
Kentucky
Awesome pics. That's some serious work for a little machine. What does Cat figure a track replacement will run? Aftermarket steel sounds like a good idea, but I wonder how that will work with an undercarriage designed for rubber tracks. Steel is going to stress things a little more I would think. I just picked up a 10k job if I can get it done in the next month or so, so I'd better get moving. I believe I'm going to give Fabick a ring and see if they have one I can demo. I like that decel pedal, I hate having to unlearn old habits.
 

rigandig

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Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
157
Location
Va
The price I first heard for Cat Replacement Tracks was 5200. a set. That was for the tracks only. I priced them last month just on a lark and they had a special going on and the price was a good bit lower. 4600. sticks in my mind.
You are right in your thinking on the steel tracks. I guess one would have to weigh the pros and cons to make a decision on them.
Not sure what you mean on the decel pedal. The pedal in mine is the opposite, like an accelerator pedal. When operating anything such as a Fecon, there is a hand throttle that you can set the engine speed where you want. Did Cat start offering a decel pedal on the MTL's?
 

labradorguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
71
Location
Kentucky
That's really not as bad as I was thinking it would be... It would be interested to hear from others who went with the steel tracks, to see if they would do it again. I may have made a mistake, I've been pouring over so much info it may all be running together. I though that I had remembered reading that the big Cat had a decel pedal. My mistake I guess. It would have been a nice touch though. :)
 

rigandig

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
157
Location
Va
You may be right about that. I haven't spent much time researching what's new on them.
 
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