• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Laying welded plastic water pipe?

812harleys

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
44
Location
Dolores Colorado
Occupation
Equipment operator, mechanic, some office work on
Hi guys, I could use some help on getting an estimate together on a pipeline project we are getting ready to do. I can't seem to find a thread I was looking at a month or so ago about how much pipe one can lay in a day. What we are going to do this winter is lay 5 1/2 miles of 3 foot irrigation water pipe. I still need to find out the exact pipe it is because we may be going with the poly pipe and it is welded together. We are also going with the wireless meters so we can keep track of the water usage right here in the office. Anyway, this is all stuff that will come in in due time.
We have 2 excavators, a 240 and 490 John deere, a 310 rubber tire hoe, 550 JD dozer, 4 ton dynapac padfoot roller, dump trucks and all but I would like to know is if anyone out there has done any 3' pipelaying and about how many feet a crew can get done in a day?? I went out and dug some test holes for the engineer for the realignment in some areas and looks like we can do it. There is only one knob that has alot of shale rock that will take a little time to get through but most of this operation is going less than 8'-10' deep and will be able to put it right into the old ditch or next to it and fill in the old ditch with some of the excess dirt generated. There will be places we will import bedding sand that we have alot of from cleaning ditches for over 100 years and I will want to do as much pre-planning beforehand to get sand hauled out there and place in some easy to get spots, some roads cut or dressed, and as much done before the water is out of the ditch to speed things up for this phase during the winter(about half). Is anyone familiar with plastic welded water pipe and is there a rule of thumb or a template I can use to estimate how much time with this epuipment it will take to lay this pipeline. I am rather new to estimating and doing office work but I have one real bad back and my boss is getting me into the office to do computer work and this pipeline is to be my project so I want to do him a good job(any advice is appreciated.) In addition to the paperwork I will be running the 240 excavator and we should have 2 other people to operate, 3 people the help ly the pipe and drive truck or whatever, and according to the engineer the pipe company will be supplying a plastic welder and man to operate it as well. If anyone is familiar with laying 3' welded pipeline please let me know what I can expect timewise. I know there is alot of variables involved but I have no experience with welded plastic.:beatsme
 

d4c24a

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
753
Location
ENGLAND U.K
pipe welding

it might pay you to find out what time a joint cycle will take,here in the uk we are laying 12" dia water pipe jointed by the butt fusing method and this takes around 45 mins a joint
 

812harleys

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
44
Location
Dolores Colorado
Occupation
Equipment operator, mechanic, some office work on
Thank you, I was afraid of something like that. Do you guys have to just wait all the time on the welder or can you get several joints laid out?? Surely you have to work closely joint per joint and lift it up to weld the bottom wouldn't you? How is this style of pipe to lay as opposed to regular pvc pipe? I was talking with the engineer yesterday and he says it is pretty tough stuff.
 

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,628
Location
Southwestern PA
Occupation
Self employed excavator
It was only 12" pipe, but I've seen a thousand feet of it fused together before there was even a ditch to put it in.
 

Countryboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
It was only 12" pipe, but I've seen a thousand feet of it fused together before there was even a ditch to put it in.

My company actually has several Poly-pipe plants among other things. :cool2

The joint time will depend on the skill of the operator. You say the pipe is 3 feet in diameter? I've seen a "good" operator make a joint in 8" pipe in about 9 minutes. The bigger the pipe, the longer it will take, not just to make the weld but the handling time increases too.

Poly-pipe is near indestructable and the weld, done correctly of course, will be the strongest point. You should be able to prefab a section as long as you want and place it in the hole when you get ready. As Digger said, the stuff is pretty flexible so a long stretch will still be easily layed in "sections".

Some of the guys out here installed a new overflow line, from one of the slurry ponds, that was 2 1/2 feet in diameter. The section was 300 yards long when completed and was dragged by 2 D9 dozers for placement into the trench. I was not there for the fab work so I don't know how long it took to make those joints.
 

tylermckee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
768
Location
washington
Ive done 6" pipe and it takes about 12 minutes per weld, 10 of those minutes are waiting for the pipe to cool after fusing it. im guessing your best bet is to get them laying out the pipe and welding it before you start digging then lay it in the trench. We had the option of taking a class to get certified to weld the pipe, i would suggest you or another employee do it. It was pretty simple just follow the directions as far as how long you need to heat the pipe, cool down times, and keeping all the welds clean and straight. The guy that was sent out to weld our pipe was a real fruit and tried to make a huge production out of nothing.
 

812harleys

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
44
Location
Dolores Colorado
Occupation
Equipment operator, mechanic, some office work on
Thanks for the advice. I am trying to get all my ducks in a row before the water is out of the ditch. This is going to be a good job for me(career wise) so your advice and experience is great! Welding outside the ditch sounds like the only feasible way to lay this type of pipe. I agree about doing our own welding and I do have a few months to get this figured out. I am sure I'll have more questions as time goes by. Well, I got to get to the field and get to work. Thanks
 

d4c24a

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
753
Location
ENGLAND U.K
butt fuseing

here is a link to someone doing a big pipe job,as it has been said joint your pipe up first,but it still takes time ,we cannot joint any faster than the machine will let you yes it can be fiddled,but all the joint cycle times are logged in the machine and the client downloads the info any joints not up to spec will be removed and replaced, once a joint has cooled you will not break it
link http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28903
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
We did a bunch of 36" plastic pipe at Kennecott Copper's mine near Salt Lake City. (about ten or twelve miles or more) The welding machines were rented (very expensive) and we had to provide a 150KW generator, and a forklift (IT28) to unload pipe from transports and drag it around as the sections were joined together. You can move the welder and generator along if you have a good work area or road to use, otherwise, move the pipe to it untill you have a pretty good string assembled. This is definitely not a job to be performed in a trench if you don't absolutely have to. The crew took some time geting things sorted out, but could really slap pipe together once they got some experience under their belt. We did this in the early spring in Utah, so it wasn't over-warm. Kennecott has a bunch of this pipe all over the mine being used for reclaimed water, tailings distribution, and process water for their concentrators.

The welding machine, once the pipe sections are in place, does all the work and a bad weld is extremely rare. With big pipe, do not rush the actual weld time. There's a lot of plastic to melt together and if it's cold it will take a bit longer than usual. I know it gets cold in Dolores cause I froze my butt off working there on McPhee Dam one winter.

All of this type pipe I have worked around has been left on the surface, not buried, except for a road crossing or two. If you do not have to bury it, I suggest you don't as that will increase your costs. Realize the NIMBY's and environmentalists, not to mention the tourist types will not want to see it.

Good luck!
 

812harleys

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
44
Location
Dolores Colorado
Occupation
Equipment operator, mechanic, some office work on
Small world!! The McPhee dam has been really good for this area and supplies alot more water to our farmers. We will definitly bury it but we don't have to go real deep and put in air-vacs and drains along the way to drain it during the winter. Do you have to worry about expansion and contraction when burying during the heat of the day? I laid some pipe for a wash plant one time and pushed it together in the heat of the day, was going to cover it the next day and two joints pulled apart during the cool nighttime air. Pushed them back together and buried during the cool of the morning. This pipe is pretty tough from what hear. Leaving it exposed all year has got to cause some movement. It can be 40 degrees in the morning and 100 degrees in the afternoon here. I know aboout freezing your butt, I am from So-Cal and been here 16 years now and still freeze my but in the winter.
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
I returned to McPhee in 91 or 92 and rented a small boat so I could take the kids out and show them what I helped build. (dam was topped out in 83) We thought we might do a little swimming too. Big surprise, the lake was cold as hell and even dipping a toe in for a couple of minutes made it turn blue. This was in late July. Working at McPhee was however, one of the better jobs I've had and it was a nice area to live in. I stayed in Delores for a while, also Cortez, and really enjoyed my off time when I stayed at the campground upriver at Stoner. Did a lot of fishing in the river from there upstream.

The big pipe at Bingham Canyon was kept in place by large anchor assemblies with concrete foundations. The pipe was not clamped tightly however, allowing it to slide back and forth as needed. As I've never buried any of this pipe, I can't say how it would react underground. Even the smaller 6 and 8 inch pipe we ran in the oilfields in California was not buried. The pipe people ought to be able to tell you more about that however.
 

812harleys

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
44
Location
Dolores Colorado
Occupation
Equipment operator, mechanic, some office work on
Thanks for the info!! yes, it is beautiful country around here and up around stoner and Rico. There is a hot spring just above Rico that runs all year and is fun to get into. I have been checking with the pipe companies but I really learn alot from this site. Everyone on here have great experience and are very helpful and you can learn more than what the pipe companies want you to know. You just can't beat experiences and I am anxiuos to get going but still have time. As soon as possible I will be getting the roads and realignments bladed and dozed out to facilitate the actual work. Good roads to travel will mean alot!!
 

812harleys

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
44
Location
Dolores Colorado
Occupation
Equipment operator, mechanic, some office work on
this is going to be irrigation pipe. It is going to replace one of our open canals and has about 45 turn outs along the way. The farmers use this water to water thier crops so there is alot of water running through it. Some of the turn outs can be 8-10 inch headgates and may supply several sideroll sprinklers but most go to gated pipe and such. We have had several problems such as breeches and this canal is an ongoing repair every year. We are hoping to get all the open ditches into pipe someday but we have 128 miles of open ditch.
 
Top