• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Yet another CTL question

alco

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
1,286
Location
here
Yet another compact track loader question for you folks. I am considering buying a CTL in the next little while and have narrowed it down to 3 machines. The problem is, I really would like to find out more about what experiences people have had with them before I narrow the field even further.

I have cut the field down to the Bobcat T190, the John Deere CT322 and the Cat 247B...in no order of preference. I have quite a bit of time around Bobcat machines and generally like them. That being said, I don't want to limit my choice based on my experience alone. In the end, it will more than likely come down to dealer support more than anything, but I am very interested in what others have to say. I have had good luck with Deere in the past, but never have had anything to do with their CTLs or skidsteers. I have had experience with Cat skidsteers....though not all favourable. I do really like the track system they have, but I am so used to bobcat foot controls, I don't know how I really feel about Cat's joysticks. Now, I will admit, the one Cat track machine I ran was very nice, but felt underpowered. The skids I have run from Cat were all beat 3/4 to death, so I know it's not really fair to compare.

This is where you fine folks come in. Could you please share your feelings on the above mentioned machines with me? I am looking for negative as well as positive experiences so I can try to feel out which would fit my needs a bit better.

Thank

Brian
 

Tigerotor77W

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Messages
1,014
Location
Michigan
Occupation
Engineer
Hey alco -- having worked at Cat's skid-steer facility, I'd like to say that I really do think they're better-designed than the industry gives them credit for. That being said, however, they might not be the best in the industry for your purposes. The topic of MTL/CTLs has been beat to death in general, both here and at other sites offering message board functions. That being said, your operating conditions and needs are what we can tailor this thread for, so what do you intend to do with the machine? If it's just to clean the blades of your D11s... :D

In all seriousness, no one makes a bad product nowadays. It'll come down to preference and dealer support.

PS: Why are you comparing the Cat 247B to the other two models? The 257B is more on-a-par with the two you mentioned. In addition, the 247B will be going to a 247B2 this year -- with a Tier III engine and refined hydrostatics as its major improvements.
 

alco

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
1,286
Location
here
That being said, your operating conditions and needs are what we can tailor this thread for, so what do you intend to do with the machine? If it's just to clean the blades of your D11s... :D

In all seriousness, no one makes a bad product nowadays. It'll come down to preference and dealer support.

PS: Why are you comparing the Cat 247B to the other two models? The 257B is more on-a-par with the two you mentioned. In addition, the 247B will be going to a 247B2 this year -- with a Tier III engine and refined hydrostatics as its major improvements.

So I know this has been done to death, but I thought I would ask.

Anyhow, general work around new construction of houses is primarily what I am aiming for. I guarantee my machine won't be used to clean D11 blades.....lol.

I know it will come down to preference, and until I get a chance to try all three, I won't be able to honestly state my preference. I would like to see what others have to say though. I was looking at the operating capacity and length when I mentioned the 247B to compare, it seemed more inline to me. I know the Deere is bigger, but it is the smaller of the two made by them. I am looking for a smaller machine since they build houses so close together up here. That being said, I know it is only a few inches shorter. I was also thinking since it is longer, heavier and has a higher operating capacity, the 257B only having the same power may be a bit of a hinderance.

Brian
 

Tigerotor77W

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Messages
1,014
Location
Michigan
Occupation
Engineer
I didn't mean the comment offensively... after all, dealers have to deal with it every day. Sorry bout that.

I also think others should chime in... my thought is that if you take care of the machine and if lift capacity and the ability to spin your tracks excessively aren't big issues, the 247B will do the job very well. There are other value-added features on the Cat as well -- hydraulic cooling fan, for instance, and color-coded systems (fluid line colors, in other words) that match those of Cat's larger machines (which may or may not pay off). On the other hand, if you're looking for a brute of a machine, the 322 will likely "feel" the most powerful (and will lift the most).
 

Bob Horrell

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
424
Location
Acton, CA
Occupation
Owner/Operator grading business
I currently have a Bobcat, but have used a CAT and a Deere. I like John Deere equipment (I have one of their backhoes). I don't like their skidsteer/MTLs. They are powerful but I find their hydraulics to be too jerky for me. It would be a wonderful machine if the hydraulics were a smooth as their backhoes. If all you were doing was hogging dirt they would be OK. I personally love the CAT pilot controls. Work hard all day and still feel like you were sitting in an easy chair. Effortless. I, however, find their hydraulic power to be lacking when compared to Bobcat or Deere. Working/cleaning up around new homes is an ideal job for a CTL. Manuverability is great, no flats from nails left on the ground, and the ability to work if it is muddy. For this job, of the 3 machines I would like the CAT best (hydraulic power not important), the Bobcat second, and the Deere third (way to jerky for finish grading close to houses etc.
Talk to 3 different operators and you will probably get 3 different opinions. Try them all and see what you like best. If you can't get a demo, rent one for a job. After using them all in a real application, it usually becomes obvious which one you will like best. I have always been pretty mechanical, and do all of my own maintenance, so Dealer support hasn't been as important to me as it might be to others. I don't think any of the three will be more problematic than the others.
I have a friend with a T190 that also has a bunch of Bobcat skidsteers. He beats the heck out of all his equipment. He is a darn good operator but is one of those guys that just doesn't respect the equipment and doesn't even know what the word "maintenance" means. He uses the T190 like a skidsteer and it looked like a beat up rental after only a few hundred hours. I think he currently has between 1500-2000 hours on it and the only thing he has had to do was replace a track that he trashed on a demo job.
Oh, I almost forgot. He lost it down in a 50ft. ditch once and had to have it craned out. It ran fine when it got out (smoked bad for a little while) so he went right back to using it like nothing ever happened.
 
Last edited:

alco

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
1,286
Location
here
Xing,

Sorry, I wasn't taking offense in any way to what you said. I appologise if that's how it came across.

Thanks guys, this is exactly what I am looking for. I do plan to line up work and rent the three different machines to do it.....at separate times of course.....so that I can get a feel for the different characteristics of each. It's things like how Bob finds the Deere too jerky that really help. It gives me a bit better idea before hand so I know a bit more of what to expect.

Thank you very much guys

Brian
 

Tigerotor77W

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Messages
1,014
Location
Michigan
Occupation
Engineer
If nothing else, I'll just keep bumping this thread to the top... :D

Xing,

Sorry, I wasn't taking offense in any way to what you said. I appologise if that's how it came across.

Not at all -- we're good. :drinkup
 

Fieldman12

Active Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
36
Location
New Vienna, Ohio
The Deere machines are very good these days. The early 200 Series had issues but once updated they where okay machines. The Series II and 300 machines are way better machines. I have a budy with a 322 CTL and he really likes it. They have real good pushing power and some of the best lifting capacity out there. Another thing I like about the Deere's is they are very, very easy to service than most of the other brands except New Holland. As far as the hydaulics being jerky they dont seem that bad to me. Once you get use to how to move the pedles and levers they are like any other piece of machinery. I have the 250 Series II wheeled machine and so far have been really happy with it. I love Cat equipment but would stay away from there track loaders that have the ASV undercarriage. I hear nothing but problems with them. Hopefully they will have the issues fixed on the C series. I think Deere will have the pilot controls out next year. Deere's are getting very popular around here. Any Deere dealer can get ya parts which is another thing I like about them.Bobcat makes good machines but I think they are high priced, but Im sure would do a good job for ya.
 

Countryboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Welcome to HEF Digit! :drinkup
 

bobcatmechanic

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
429
Location
kansas
Occupation
bobcat mechanic
the deere controls to me are stiff and require getting use to the cats i have heard go to junk at about 1500 hours bobcat drive motors have problems but other than that are ok if you go sjc with bobcat be ready for the speed sensors in the motors to leak or go out i see this quite often but other than that bobcats are pretty sound cat is going to the same pump as bobcat and there is a learning curve to be seen bobcat took 4 years to get the majority of the program and electrical issues worked out so cat will probably have the same issues in the next few years just first hand knowledge not sying cat is bad or johndeere is but there are pros and cons to all the machines and its kind of what you have had luck with my suggestion is get the machine loaded better trade in value later and nicer to run because of the creature comforts but its all on how much you want to spend in the first place
 

bonanno23

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
131
Location
Long Island NY
Occupation
union drainage foreman, also own a full time lands
if you get an enclosed cab, there deere is def no good. feels like you're going to hit your face on the door glass if you ever catch the bucket on something. can't stand the old style controls either. like someone else said, the 247 is not really in the same size range as the other machine you mentioned. i would say the cat 257 or even the 267 would compare to the 322. i dont have any time on bobcats so i cant comment on them. I am personally a takeuchi lover but you didnt mention them so i wont go any further with that.
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,319
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
I was going to suggest TK as well. The only issue is once you get past the TL130 they are physically a big machine. I don't know how close you are to Hamer Equipment I know they are in Alberta. They are a big TK dealer. They make a sound machine. The CASE 440 tracked machine is also very strong and compact also sold by Hamer. Another option maybe the VTS system on a wheeled machine. I think they are a better deal over the life of the machine. The used values of CTL's does not hold well over the life of the machine. There can some bargains found if you can separate the wheat from the chaff. Most of these options were not asked for but it might give you something else to think about.
 

stumpjumper83

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,974
Location
Port Allegany, pa
Occupation
Movin dirt
Another vote for the tk's. Had the chance to spend two days in a 140 w/ pilot controlls, cab, and air seat. That think was nice.
 

Tri-Star

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
74
Location
TN
I am a bobcat man myself, I have a 2003 T-300 I love it, yeh I have had a few proplems but thats not unusual when you work one hard. I have been on a cat 247 & 257 and they were ok worked side by side with my 300 and a 267 and it wouldnt come close to keeping up, yes it was alot faster but the cat just couldnt put the traction to the ground. We were in some real soopy mud bucketing mud out of a pond and I could get almost two buckets to his one just because the cat couldnt get up the slope. The other thing about the cat mtl's I have noticed is short undercarrige wear! But they are still alot better than some I have been on, dont want to mention any names.
 

alco

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
1,286
Location
here
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I hadn't seen the replies to it, and I didn't want to snub anybody.
Just joined the forum...what did you end up buying Alco?

Due to being unexpectedly busy at work this past year, I only had the opportunity to take on a few jobs, so I haven't purchased anything yet. I seem to have stuck with Cat machines for rental, but that's only because my brother in law is a counter man for The Cat Rental Store here in town and gives deals I can't pass up. So I need to crack down this year and try a few machines.

if you get an enclosed cab, there deere is def no good. feels like you're going to hit your face on the door glass if you ever catch the bucket on something. can't stand the old style controls either. like someone else said, the 247 is not really in the same size range as the other machine you mentioned. i would say the cat 257 or even the 267 would compare to the 322. i dont have any time on bobcats so i cant comment on them. I am personally a takeuchi lover but you didnt mention them so i wont go any further with that.

I've never had any dealings with Takeuchi machines, but Hammer just opened a branch here in town, so I'll have to look into their machines. I know I won't be looking into Case which is the other brand they sell since I have had too many bad experiences with them when I was pulling wrenches. As for the Deere's cab, I'll have to see how that looks since I can't see how I could hit my face off the glass when it doesn't stick out nearly as far as my legs do. I would think my knees beating off the door would be more of a concern. Personally, I prefer the old style controls to the setup Cat has. They feel more natural to me, but I have 18 years of experience on them, so I may be a bit biased.

Brian
 

jmf

Active Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
30
Location
WNY
I'm surprised that ASV is not on your list. My SR80 with 20" tracks is truly an all surface vehicle. It has the power and reliability of a Perkins diesel and the ride is sweet, like the Cat only smoother. Since you're renting, try the ASV PT-60. It is small, but I hear it delivers. You will be surprised by the cycle times. It's fast. My SR80, with a bucket full of dirt, will travel at 12mph+.

jmf
 

bullard910

New Member
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
2
Location
Rockwell, NC
One question I have is who you guys would recommend for a forestry package. I don't have much experience with this, not to mention the forestry package side of the industry. These things are pretty pricey, just want to spend money wisely.

Thanks again for your advice.
 

cybermallinc

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
20
Location
Southeastern PA
Hi, I'm thinking about a ASV PT-60. I just got back from the dealer & drover the PT-80, PT-70 & PT-60. The 80 & 70 are way too much machine. The 80 has 2 speed & so does the 60 but not the 70. The 80 & 60 also has the updaed 24 roller undercarriage. Any opinion from you would be appreciated. I do mainly forestry work for myself. Thanks
 
Top