Cat M Series Operators

Look at it this way, we all got a bonus education on haul truck brakes while learning the quirks of the "M" transmission.

Not a bad 2 for 1 deal.

Here, I'll drag it a little off track again.....

We had only ran our JD770D about 50 hours, mostly pushing snow, when it had a glitch. Turned out to be operator stupidity more than anything else.

0200 a.m., zero degrees, six miles from the grader shed, pushing snow. I came to a T intersection, turned onto the cross road, shifted out of 6th forward and quickly into 4th reverse using the brake to stop. Very quickly shifted from 4th reverse to 4th forward. The machine went to 1st forward and started flashing a "check codes" signal. Hmmmmm,,,, what's going on?? I had the shifter in 4th fwd and the machine is idling along in 1st fwd with the indicator saying neutral. Hmmmm.... I clicked the shifter to 1st fwd and then back to 2nd fwd. Machine stayed in 1st fwd indicating neutral flashing check codes. Hmmmmm...... Now I'm a little worried, it's gonna be a long trip home in 1st. I'm afraid at first to do anything thinking it's gonna go to neutral and leave me stranded. After a few seconds I shifted to neutral and when the machine stopped moving I shifted to Park, then to 4th fwd. Again it went into 1st fwd. I stopped and shifted to 4th reverse and it went into 1st rvs. Now I'm really worried. I sat there for a few seconds analyzing what was going on. I didn't have the manual with me so couldn't look up the code, not sure it would have helped anyway. I had heard of problems with the Deere machines building up ice around the shift solenoids and causing problems. I got out and took a look. Couldn't see the transmission at all. Solid block of ice, hanging almost to the ground at the back of the machine. Bummer..... I called my Son out of bed, told him to stock up on ice chipping tools and head my way. I put the machine in 1st fwd and headed toward town. I hadn't went a mile when my Son showed up. We chipped ice away from the transmission until we could access all the solenoids. Everything was plugged in and looked fine. Him and I were standing in the middle of the road discussing our options. He is an automotive mechanic at a local dealership. He said "sometimes cars will do things like this and the computer won't reset without shutting down the machine and restarting. I moved the machine to the side of the road and shut it down. Waited a couple minutes and restarted. Everything was fine. No more problems and the code light went off. The next day I called the dealership and talked to the service manager. He said I went thru the shifter gate so quickly that the computer didn't keep up. He said they've had complaints of this problem before. The fix is to shut down the machine and restart. I later ran the code and that's the situation it described. The computer is designed to protect the transmission in every aspect. I shifted so quickly it didn't have time to diagnose what action I was requesting so it put itself in limp mode. Shutting off and restarting reset the computer. I love technology and would not want to move back to the old gear shifting transmissions of yesterday, but sometimes I just wish the computer would talk to me a little clearer so I understood what was going on. If I'd had my manual I probably could have figured it out. My bad.

Amen to that ............. I love electronics too, but sometimes you need a translator to interpret what they're saying ointheadointhead

Funny, isn't it. It seems to be against an operators nature to take the chance and turn off the key. Over the years, most of us have shut down a machine, only to have that followed by a no start situation. My 140M AWD had some steering glitches (before updates) that left me sitting in a snowbank. I wasn't stuck, but I couldn't steer! Explain that to the 770 operator, and the truck plow that you just pulled out. Had to shut down and let everything reset. With help nearby, I wasn't worried, but there is still feeling of anticipation when you hit the key.

smoothoperator

Puckers the sphincter muscles don't it ......??

The 2011 140M we operate is unreal, 2 things we arnt fussed on is visibility to the front and rear and crappy slope meters that are factory. once i learnt controls productivity and finished product went up considerably. i would not recommend buying a used m series prior to 2010 as most trouble were had with the earlier models. not one single drama yet and it looks great on site. i do believe after seeing many operators is people need to use graders as graders and dozers as dozers. the amount of operators that treat graders like crap is unreal, keep a grader on a road and you will find it will last, follow all maintenance procedures is also a good place to start. we have a 140h 1997 with 15000 hours on it and it still drives like a dream, beautiful final trim machine, only downtime we had with the H is when the starter motor failed at 13000 hours, put good operators on a machine, service it properly UNDERSTAND Everything about the machine BEfore taking off in it and you will be laughing. m series is the way of the future whether we like it or not, i am not trading mine for ANYTHING

140magic said:

The 2011 140M we operate is unreal, 2 things we arnt fussed on is visibility to the front and rear and crappy slope meters that are factory. once i learnt controls productivity and finished product went up considerably. i would not recommend buying a used m series prior to 2010 as most trouble were had with the earlier models. not one single drama yet and it looks great on site. i do believe after seeing many operators is people need to use graders as graders and dozers as dozers. the amount of operators that treat graders like crap is unreal, keep a grader on a road and you will find it will last, follow all maintenance procedures is also a good place to start. we have a 140h 1997 with 15000 hours on it and it still drives like a dream, beautiful final trim machine, only downtime we had with the H is when the starter motor failed at 13000 hours, put good operators on a machine, service it properly UNDERSTAND Everything about the machine BEfore taking off in it and you will be laughing. m series is the way of the future whether we like it or not, i am not trading mine for ANYTHING

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I totally agree. When I ran a 140M my biggest complaint was visibility front/rear. The machine is designed to look at the blade and it has great visibility in that area but totally sucks when looking straight forward over the main beam.

I also agree with you about a grader's purpose. Over the past four years we have converted 6 miles of dirt roads to gravel. All of it required dozing off steep banks, elevating the roadbed, sloping all the banks and finishing the grade. I've estimated that our current grader has pushed dirt 500 hours since we've owned it. Deere graders are known to wear the blade shift brass bushings quickly. You add 500 hours of hard dirt pushing and that problem gets worse. In 1600 hours of operation we've worn out two sets of bushings. That would not have happened if the grader was doing simple finish work and gravel road normal maintenance. We have traded our machine for a new JD770G. Over the past couple months I've frantically worked on finishing our dirt work. I didn't want that wear put on our new machine. I finished the last section Friday. Our new machine delivers next Tuesday. Worked out great.

I treat our grader as if I am the one paying for it. I regularly wash it. The inside of the cab is spotless. I service it on a more frequent schedule than recommended by the factory. I don't ruin tires, bust windows, break off lights, scratch paint. I am proud of the machine I operate and consider it the property of my taxpayers. They deserve that kind of care.

When I see machines with tens of thousands of hours on them I always think that machine certainly didn't do hard dirt pushing work all that time. The Governmental organizations around us that have a full line of equipment and only use their graders for light maintenance work get amazing trouble free hours of service from their machines. Unfortunately my township only has one piece of equipment. So our grader spends a lot of time carrying heavy work attachments such as a snow V plow, snow wing and/or a front dozer blade.

In the end I agree with you concerning the M series CAT. But I am disappointed that CAT rushed the release of the machine and relied on the first couple model years to conduct the final portion of their Research and Development. That soured a lot of operators and I don't blame them, I'd have been more than a little upset as well. My neighbors 140M is one of the early models. It's had at least ten modifications done to it. It's also had an extremely easy life so far and has never pushed dirt. I wonder how it would have held up under more stressful conditions.

smoothoperator said:

Funny, isn't it. It seems to be against an operators nature to take the chance and turn off the key. smoothoperator

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True that. I wasn't about to shut down the machine without someone there to haul me home if it failed to start.

I keep telling the muppets here that a 16M is NOT a D8, 834, or other similar tool with a blade at the front. It has a blade under the centre and it's called a grader for a reason and they should use it as such ......... for grading, not blading.

Can't remember how many times we have had to replace busted hydraulic lines on the steering cylinders caused by running the front axle over fcukoff great rocks .........

Nige, your calling your nonoperators "muppets" cracked me up. I just got a vision of furry puppets in the seat.....

"Animal" from the Muppet Show is the nearest comparison I can think of .............

Hello operators, I can't start a new thread, so i am giving this one a bump. I am new on this site and have been operating a grader for 2 yea rs for a paving company. I started out on a 12G, then became the main operator in the 12H. Well my boss just told me that they bought a used 2009 140M and i am very excited to operate it, but nervous at the same time. To all of you with experience in the M series what pointers can you give me. any suggestions on what i should check out before i use it? They will bring it to the job site and want me to start grading right away. any advice is appreciated. Thankyou Matt

Read the operator's manual, to get familiar with the switches, controls, etc. Take the time to take a good look at the machine : look for the vulnerable points (small pilot lines not protected on the undercarriage, things like that)....and stay on your seat

Alberta said:

....and stay on your seat

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On the M Series you have to do exactly that. The seat has an pressure switch in it - the "Operator Present" switch in the wiring schematic. If you leave the seat for whatever reason the hydraulic system is deactivated and the park brake is applied. Not good if the machine is moving ....!!

Trannys. MMMM . Finding the drive bolts in the screens .. Loss of coupler resulting in loss of tranny lube .. mm

Not a problem anymore .. Biggest problem now is the charge pump case on the ATS's machines.

I dont operate M graders just fix em .. The park brake wont apply in motion if the operator jumps out of the seat .. Unless you guys are running old software.

The 24M's dont like trannys either .. Again, Problem solved for the time being.

The tranny coupling issue was not fixed by the PSP then ..? I thought that issue was behind us.

I had a panic with a 16M transmission today, there was only 1200 hours on it as well. Oil analysis showed steady rise in copper & iron since the last oil change 700 hours ago. ISO jumped from 18/16 to 23/21 in about 150 operating hours. I was convinced we were losing a clutch. Brought the machine in the shop. Dropped the oil - clean as a whistle. Pulled the screens - absolutely nada. Cut open the old filter - also nada. What caused it ..? I wish I knew but of course it had to happen on a Friday afternoon. Why is it that machines know when it's Friday ..?

Nige said:

The tranny coupling issue was not fixed by the PSP then ..? I thought that issue was behind us.

I had a panic with a 16M transmission today, there was only 1200 hours on it as well. Oil analysis showed steady rise in copper & iron since the last oil change 700 hours ago. ISO jumped from 18/16 to 23/21 in about 150 operating hours. I was convinced we were losing a clutch. Brought the machine in the shop. Dropped the oil - clean as a whistle. Pulled the screens - absolutely nada. Cut open the old filter - also nada. What caused it ..? I wish I knew but of course it had to happen on a Friday afternoon. Why is it that machines know when it's Friday ..?

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Aye ... Never seen a new tranny in a 16M for ages now, The coupler problem was solved as well as the bearing problem (Counter shaft tranny weakness) ..

The 24's here run like clockwork (Hard to believe I know Brian)... Its the dam 16H's that have problems ..

thank you guys for the info. i will take the manual home to read all about the machine and check the grader out throughly. i hope it is in good condition, it came from an auction..... fingers crossed. Matt

Ross said:

Trannys. MMMM . Finding the drive bolts in the screens .. Loss of coupler resulting in loss of tranny lube .. mm

Not a problem anymore .. Biggest problem now is the charge pump case on the ATS's machines.

I dont operate M graders just fix em .. The park brake wont apply in motion if the operator jumps out of the seat .. Unless you guys are running old software.

The 24M's dont like trannys either .. Again, Problem solved for the time being.

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Tranny issues are still with us....lost one (coupler) in September. Only took the dealer one month to get it fixed !

A month ................ each one of the 3 we have was in their shop 2 for months at a time while they did the transmission coupler and all the other upgrades on it. In order to get at the necessary areas the machine was down torn down to not much more than a cab & chassis before they started reassembling. Blade/drawbar/hydraulic cylinders off, engine out, tranny out, tandems off, brakes off. IIRC there were something like 15 programmes being applied at the one time.