How long does a mini-ex track last down in your neck of the woods? I wouldn't expect a VTS track or a CTL track with steel to last as long as your mini-ex tracks. Same fundamental construction and way more forces applied to the track. The cables are usually the first to go due to cuts and moisture getting into the track. My understanding is that New Zealand is a pretty wet country which probably accelerates your cable corrosion.
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Track Tearing Problem
- Thread starter LuckyJ
- Start date
How long does a mini-ex track last down in your neck of the woods? I wouldn't expect a VTS track or a CTL track with steel to last as long as your mini-ex tracks. Same fundamental construction and way more forces applied to the track. The cables are usually the first to go due to cuts and moisture getting into the track. My understanding is that New Zealand is a pretty wet country which probably accelerates your cable corrosion.
Haddy
Well-Known Member
We don't run a mini-ex but from what I hear you normally get 1000+ hours from them . We had hoped for at least 1000 as they aren't cheap . I don't think NZ is any wetter than Mid West . We have free draining soils here , we are normally back to work 24 hours after rain .
Haddy
Well-Known Member
Sorry , my mistake . We only got 250 hours from the track before it broke
T GRIMM
Active Member
for your next machine, you mite take a look at the 259 B3, im renting one now and have put 500 hrs on in the last 4 months, tracks are holding up great. its been on a grapple bucket, with appx. 400hrs in dirt and 100 hrs in very rock conditons. also have 8 289c and 1 297c and the 297 has been nothing but undercarge problems the entire job! my opinion- the only places the asv undercarge design is better in, is snow and mud.
dave esterns
Senior Member
how much have you paid in rent for 500 hours? are they charging you per month?
T GRIMM
Active Member
$2300/ month for the 259 with a max of 160 hrs/month. $2700 for a 289
Haddy
Well-Known Member
What about a 277 ? How does the under carriage and tracks hold up on these ?
My 2¢:
Put a straight edge across the bottom front and rear of the track frames, not rollers, (tight wire, etc.) and check to see that they are not cambered in or out, and also check to make sure they are perfectly parallel to each other, "X" the track frames to be sure. Cambered-out track frames can place a lot of excessive stress on the outside edge of a track. Conversly to the inside. Check idler trueness to the track frame.
Put a straight edge across the bottom front and rear of the track frames, not rollers, (tight wire, etc.) and check to see that they are not cambered in or out, and also check to make sure they are perfectly parallel to each other, "X" the track frames to be sure. Cambered-out track frames can place a lot of excessive stress on the outside edge of a track. Conversly to the inside. Check idler trueness to the track frame.
You hear a lot that the 247 might be the best of the MTL's, likely because it most closely matches the weight and hp of its comparable ASV cousin to which the undercarriage was desgined for in the first place. The tearing I think may something to do with both the tension and the and taking too tight of turns in unfavorable ground conditions. I don't know what else it could be really.
pafarmer
Senior Member
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- Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
**** poor design by CAT..................Everyone with one of these CAT's has the same problem. CAT never stood behind their product and just let everyone spend needlessly on new tracks. Don't take my word on this , do a little research and you will find out for yourself......CAT has a totally new design now but never admitted to the poor design .........I will never buy CAT again.....my .02
Its a lot more complicated than that Pafarmer. CAT bought into ASV, graffed the ASV undercarriage to a skid steer and the MTL was born, as were an untold number of pissed off customers. ASV engineered the undercarriage and the carrier to work together. The ASVs are lighter and better balanced and have less power in some of the models. CAT, I dont think did anything but wield the bottom to the top (of which they had problems with bending and broken wields) and called it good.
The ASV was always sold as a special application type machine. Kept in its element, it does things no other tracked machine can do. CAT sold the MTL as a superior CTL which it certainly is not. However the machines were/are very impressive to demo, they ride great and are very quiet compared to a regular CTL. They sell themselves. However click some hours off and the issues quickly and very expensively surface which it sounds like you know first hand. They quickly grenade when used in abrasive enviroments. These machines were clearly sold as something that they were not which is what ASV avoided before CAT came into their lives.
The CAT CTL has a torsion system like the Loegren VTS system, and it works great. Now it seems CAT is much quicker to steer guys away from the MTL. When I was looking at a 279C they would not sell me an MTL, which I would not buy anyway. CAT I am sure learned a lot in this MTL mess, but they certainly wrecked a lot of solid business relationships because of it. I think in the long run ASV would have been better had not the MTL been born, while they moved a large number of undercarriages in the short run. However, the undercarriage problems of the MTL were attributed to ASV and certainly their sales and reputation have suffered because of it.
If you look deeper in the situation its obvious that CAT wanted to quickly enter the CTL market which Bobcat had solidly owned at the time, I believe they wanted a product that corrected the major complaints of the BC owners which is ride quality and noise. They spent way to little R&D on the ASV undercarriage and how it would react to the CAT skid steer and the type of environments that a CAT customer would insert the MTL in. That combined with over aggressive sales and marketing of the MTL's capabilities, you get what occured. Unfortunately for the customer, almost all issues with the MTL can be laid back on the owner of the machine. Sometimes for due cause and sometimes because its convienient for CAT to do so. IMHO
pafarmer
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2010
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- 883
- Location
- Somewhere in the woods !
- Occupation
- Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
Your Right, its more compilcated than i made it to be, but in the end, my machine had "CAT" wriiten on the side of it and they own the issue regardless. And they did not stand behind therir machine nor their long term customer like myself............Never again will they get a penny of my cash again.
watglen
Senior Member
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- Farmer, drainage and excavating contractor, Farm d
Well, it finally happened.
Mine is a 257b. I don't think its a series 2, its a 2005 model.
Anyway, i have followed these threads for years now, and have babied those tracks as best i can. I have lived in fear the day i have to start buying parts.
Today both right rear idlers broke off. Its pretty clear dirt got into the bearings, they failed, the wheel started wobbling and eventually tore the center out of the hub. The hubs are plastic by the looks of it. Seems a tad cheap and weak to me.
The unit has 508 hrs, almost used entirely around my farmyard. We wash it like crazy because of the fear of failure. No use bitching i guess.
For sure if this unit was used in general contracting, by a normal crew of guys, those wheels would have failed long ago.
Any word on upgraded components for this unit before i replace with original equipment?
Thanks
Ken
Mine is a 257b. I don't think its a series 2, its a 2005 model.
Anyway, i have followed these threads for years now, and have babied those tracks as best i can. I have lived in fear the day i have to start buying parts.
Today both right rear idlers broke off. Its pretty clear dirt got into the bearings, they failed, the wheel started wobbling and eventually tore the center out of the hub. The hubs are plastic by the looks of it. Seems a tad cheap and weak to me.
The unit has 508 hrs, almost used entirely around my farmyard. We wash it like crazy because of the fear of failure. No use bitching i guess.
For sure if this unit was used in general contracting, by a normal crew of guys, those wheels would have failed long ago.
Any word on upgraded components for this unit before i replace with original equipment?
Thanks
Ken
watglen
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 1,324
- Location
- Dunnville, Ontario, Canada
- Occupation
- Farmer, drainage and excavating contractor, Farm d
watglen
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 1,324
- Location
- Dunnville, Ontario, Canada
- Occupation
- Farmer, drainage and excavating contractor, Farm d
257b so far.
My dealer is working on it. They have sold a pile of asv units, so i guessed they would have some experience dealing with these undercarriages.
The asv units they have done before use a sealed bearing instead of an open bearing, like my CAT. They got 3500 hours out of the last unit they serviced(note that is an RC50, which is much lighter than the 257b. That is a major factor.)
The routine they use is pull all the wheels once a year, and inject grease into the bearings with a grease needle. It is very time consuming, but the bearings last. On mine, with open bearings, the consensus is to drill the wheels and countersink a grease nipple into the wheels so we can add grease easily. The only problem may be blowing out the seal with too much grease, but the seal design is extra heavy duty, so they figure that might not be an issue.
Either way, with only 500 hrs to the first teardown, anything is worth a try. It can't do any worse.
We are installing the bair wheels across the back, new bearings across the front wheels, as well as a few of the boggies. The dealer was surprised at how much dirt was inside the hubs. I guess even though i try to baby the unit, and really wash it a lot, its not enough. So the best approach is to loosen the track and physically check the wheels for play often.
What i have learned is the undercarriage problems are very application specific.
My dealer is working on it. They have sold a pile of asv units, so i guessed they would have some experience dealing with these undercarriages.
The asv units they have done before use a sealed bearing instead of an open bearing, like my CAT. They got 3500 hours out of the last unit they serviced(note that is an RC50, which is much lighter than the 257b. That is a major factor.)
The routine they use is pull all the wheels once a year, and inject grease into the bearings with a grease needle. It is very time consuming, but the bearings last. On mine, with open bearings, the consensus is to drill the wheels and countersink a grease nipple into the wheels so we can add grease easily. The only problem may be blowing out the seal with too much grease, but the seal design is extra heavy duty, so they figure that might not be an issue.
Either way, with only 500 hrs to the first teardown, anything is worth a try. It can't do any worse.
We are installing the bair wheels across the back, new bearings across the front wheels, as well as a few of the boggies. The dealer was surprised at how much dirt was inside the hubs. I guess even though i try to baby the unit, and really wash it a lot, its not enough. So the best approach is to loosen the track and physically check the wheels for play often.
What i have learned is the undercarriage problems are very application specific.
Ripped tracks start as cut tracks. Keep operators away from jagged rocks, culvert ends and so on. In general keep off rough stuff if at all possible, big rocks at high speed break cords and when you do it will surely aid that cut on the side wall in tearing, all you have to do is give it a little twist at the wrong time and your done. They will last if you can get an operator to take care of them..
Haddy
Well-Known Member
So I quess what you are saying , ctheddy , is that we are rough operators .
I would politely say that you must be experiencing some very rough terrain and tough circumstances... that's all. I have personally logged 20,000 hrs on skidsteers of all types. I know from experience that your tracks will last and I also know that a couple wrong moves can destroy a tire or track. Again , I'm not out to criticize, I guess pass on experiences that may help others. Remember that your talking to a guy thats spent 1500 this month on new boggies, idlers and bearings, not to mention a set of tracks that just barely holding on. You do what you do to make your world go round... and if running hard is part of it then you have to figure it in your bottom line. Sorry for the misunderstanding.