• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Job Contracts???

whithunter

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
12
Location
ga.
Enjoy the site. Don't post much but I enjoy reading. You guys are a wealth of knowledge!! :notworthy:notworthy

I own a small grading company. Recently, with the economy being how it is, I am having a harder time getting paid on work I complete. I don't do a lot of commercial work or anything like that. I mainly work for private individuals in rural areas building ponds, pasture clearing, etc.. I have always just used the hand shake method and that was our agreement. I know that is crazy to some people, but that is how most of my competition operates as well. It has gotten out of hand lately with people not paying. I am going to have to start putting every job I do in writing. Some people I have talked to said it will do no good to have it in writing. They say it will cost too much to go after the money on a small job anyway. Which is probably true in some cases.

My question is: Do you use contracts on all of your jobs?? Is there somewhere I can get some generic contracts to use? Do I need to have an attorney write something up?

I am sick of people trying to jerk me around when it comes time to get payed. Thank you for any advice. :thumbsup
 

barklee

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
903
Location
ohio
YES, always have a contract. Even if its written on the back of a napkin. Ultimately if someone is going to plainly cheat you out of your money its not going to help on a small job and help little on a mid sized job. However people think twice about it with a contract in place or just even there name signed on a piece of paper
The one you have to watch out for is the guy who says he wants to pay you less because you didnt do something he "thought" you were supposed to. Thats where the contract keeps that guy honest. Also it outlines how much is being paid and when that payment is due which leaves no room for confusion.
Here is a link for a free contract that i looked up online. I read over it and i would remove a few things and change some wording but it appears pretty good. http://www.construction-forms.net/

When we do a big private negotiated project we buy the AIA contract between contractor and owner. They are a little expensive (about $50 but they cover EVERYTHING) also you can tailor it to fit your project. I hope this helps!!
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Whithunter, the answer to your queston is yes, you need a contract, the answer to the other half of your question is also yes you need to go to an attorney or several attorneys to get help in writing one up, I"ll explain why, every state and area is different and the legal aspects are as well, you need to spend a little money ahead of time to avoid problems later on, think of it as preventative maintenance and how to avoid collection problems later on and just go seek legal help. They will help draw up a work atuthorization form along with estimate forms and bidding forms and a change of work form and so fourth. You need to be protected and have signatures in place so if things go bad you have more than the usuall he said she said bull to cover your butt.

I've been where your at and got tired of it as well, you spend more time and effort to get paid than the work you did in the first place, not to mention all the headaches to go with it. Here's what I did and why and how its worked for me.

I had several attorneys draw up a work authorization form and took it to several more and had changes made until I came up with one thats simple and easy to fill out, takes a few minutes to do and has a place for two signatures, mine and the customers along with a date for each to put in. a place that describes the work to be done and rates of what machines that I write in each time along with trucking of each machine or trip charges, etc. and thngs like that, pretty simple, but stamped on the forms theres things in wirting that state the liability, collection, billing info and statement dates of so many days before interest starts and the annual interst rate, simple things like that, you can also get creative and add things that covers your butt as well, remember if its in writing and they sign its basically legal, but an attorney can help witht that, its their job.

You also need legal help to tell you how to fill it out beforehand whats needed and not needed on the form, they will tell you to jot down this but never that, they will tell you how specific it needs to be in your state.

My customers wanted to sign the forms, it was simple and easy and they had a copy to keep that stated an amount per hour or whatever I was going to charge them for, all spelled out and it gave them peace of mind that they'd get billed what I told them I would, it covers both parties to a certain extent and thats what they wanted, nobody had done it before in my area and I was the first. Now for the real kicker I never saw coming using forms, no crook will sign it, crook meaning anyone who won't pay the bill and your fighting with now, they'll never sign anything, they know it makes argueing almost impossible and legally they agreed so their stuck and they know it, everyone I'd figure I'd have problems collecting from refused to sign and hired someone else, guess what, now my competition is trying to collect instead of me. The other side effect is all the crooks stopped calling period, they know I'll require them to sign so they don't even call anymore, so thats a perk as well I don't need to even deal with any of them anymore.

Do yourself the largest favor you'll ever do and get some forms and get signatures and do it today, it might not eliminate all problems but most of them it will the other thing is if you need to go to court you have something on your side as evidence, also take pictures as you go document everything so you have proof of whats being done along with a daily log book you keep that states what you do and the hours on the machines you ran that day or how many hours your at the job that day, however you bill, you need something in writing to protect yourself later on, before, during , and after pictures I use a digital camera and when I get paid I don't print them out, if I don't get paid I print them out and put them in a file.

I have forms printed at a local printer for a few pennies a copy, two pages that write through, after signatures you keep the front one and the customer keeps the second one, they just tear apart and have a carbon type prinitng on the back of the first one, just don't wirte on more than one at a time and your good to go. I don't do work anymore unless I have a form with signatures, I did one last fall without and I did have problems, it was my own mistake and I should have but it wasn't that big a job and I didn't take the time to have the forms signed, my own fault, after this I don't care if its only a 100 dollar job, eveyone signs, otherwise I haven't had any problems with anyone since the forms other than the one guy who came through after the attorney called him, whiich is still good in my opinion, basically its taken collection out of the equation for me completely, for now anyhow and the worry to go with it. If I can help you any more let me know, I can personall message you specifics if you need them on more things if you want and answer any questions you have about the forms and what I did.
 

Greg

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Wi
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
Have mine in computer and print out each time job is awarded. As for getting paid, if someone decides they are not going to pay, they aren't going to pay. In that case make sure you are very familiar with your state's contractor lien laws and don't be afraid to use them. Next have a good collection agency if you have to go that route and last a good lawyer if you have to sue for it.
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
I use my attorney as my collection agency and attorney both, I just hand him the clients info and tell him to send him a warning letter that if payment isn't done by a certain date liens and legal action will follow two days later, works like a charm and its done in one office, people know that collection agencies don't really have legal authority to do much to them, attorneys can and will take legal action and make sure your attorney isn't afraid to do his job or offend someone by taking legal action, shop around and find one with a good track record of collecting and winning in court. Do your homework ahead of time to find out what your attorney wants you to do or not do, mine doesn't want me to use collection agencies or negotiate with the client over payment or cut deals on payment terms or conditions just to get money out of the customer, it hurts his chances in court of collecting the full amount owned.

Since we've gone to forms with signatures I've never had one go to court as of yet, they all cave in and pay in full beforehand, usually after a letter of intent my attorney sends out to them, guess my forms have enough information on them with signatures that there's not much room for argueing, that and they agreed in writing to pay my attorney's fees even in small claims court along with their own, a sentance I had added into my forms just for a safety measure, my attorney also points that out in the letter he sends out to them.

Lastly the single most important thing I was ever given for advice from several attorneys I've had over the years, if the hair on the back of your neck stands up and you have the feeling somethings not quite right with the customer or job, walk away from it and don't do it or get involved. Even if you have done everything right and have signatures and the right forms and documentation its still more of a headache than its worth if you think your going to have problems collecting in the end, just avoid the whole deal from the start.
 

Hallback

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
2,331
Location
Aberdeen Wa.
Occupation
Gyppo tower logger
After being burned by the "Handshake deal" numerous times (over $100K) I now have a signed contract with every job no matter how large or small and also in the contract is "Notice of intent to lein" where if I am not paid in a timely manner they agree that I am going to lein their property. It is in every contract and that alone insures that 98% of people pay for the work I do now.

There have only been 3 cases in 7 years since I started doing that that I have had to lein a job and I ended up with 15 acres outside Raymond Wa. as one guy didn't want to pay and the judge gave me his property seeing as how he was making no effort to pay me and TRYING to screw me. I didn't feel good about taking his property but I did it to make a point. It worked as once that got out I always get paid now.
 

cutting edge

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
575
Location
upper canuckistan
Any of you guys ever tear work out after not getting paid for it?

I have....funny how the cash starts flowing when the head goes missing off a cummins....
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Sandcreek, even with that you need a contract, I've done that too and without a contract to spell out what he paid for in advance he'll claim you didn't do the entire job he had paid you to do, most of the prepays I avoid, if I need to get paid before hand I already know I'm dealing with a crook and nothing will ever keep them happy or right. Just my observation over the years.
 

Mitch0629

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Langley, Ky
Hey I'm new to the website and I was just wondering if there were any companies near me that were hirin. I live in langley kentucky and I would really like to have a job either in demolition or construction. Either one would be fine. Just reply and let me know.
 
Top