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jcb rubber track

stuvecorp

stuvecorp

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
307
Location
lake wissota, wisconsin
dave esterns said:
ah i would like you to run down both. see what the competition says about my machines. hey i have an open mind (thats why im open to jcb) i never considered case until one day i accidentally noticed that a 440 series 3 is fairly sweet. since then i have lost interest in case because their new machines are crap in comparison.

no jcb is eventually going to have 18 models. their smallest machine built in savanah is the same size as a 435 or 250. too big. im looking to replace the s185.

so how many hours do you run your 16 skid steers to? my brother in law has a case 465 and he has had a a lot of problems with it and he always complains about how slow the boom is.

yes i dont see why you would need to grease axles on a skid steer. what a pain.
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Dave, alot of what you wrote about the Case is nonsense. I know we all have our favorites but come on. It is your loss for not trying a Series 3 Case. I've had a 70XT, 440 and 440S3 and they all have been awesome.

Have you ran a JCB?
 
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Digdeep

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
704
Location
Wisconsin
dave esterns said:
ah i would like you to run down both. see what the competition says about my machines. hey i have an open mind (thats why im open to jcb) i never considered case until one day i accidentally noticed that a 440 series 3 is fairly sweet. since then i have lost interest in case because their new machines are crap in comparison.

no jcb is eventually going to have 18 models. their smallest machine built in savanah is the same size as a 435 or 250. too big. im looking to replace the s185.

so how many hours do you run your 16 skid steers to? my brother in law has a case 465 and he has had a a lot of problems with it and he always complains about how slow the boom is.

yes i dont see why you would need to grease axles on a skid steer. what a pain.
Click to expand...

Dave....maybe the problem just isn't the door handle. I'm sure that a poor dealer network is primarily to blame for JCBs poor market share in North America, but even Volvo sold more machines than JCB. They actually might be the best thing that happened to JCB in North America now that they are branding the JCB product. BTW..JCB sold about 250 units in the US in 2008 before the economy completely collapsed. Komatsu sold about 450 and they're pulling out of the market????????
 
B

barklee

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
903
Location
ohio
250 units!!! Wow that is low. I would really like to check out a new one, but i have checked every dealer around here and on machinery trader. Nothing to be had or any reassurance that there will be one in this year to look at!
With that said; how can a company sell a product successfully when a customer wants to look at there machine and cant. Most people that are in the market for a new machine would drive on down the road to a "stocking" dealer that has enough faith in there respective product to order machines to market to there customers.

My feeling is that most (not all) JCB dealers dont have the faith in selling a new machine so they dont purchase any for dealer stock.

I'm not by any means running down JCB but i dont know how someone could put them on the same level as a Deere, Cat, Case, Bobcat when (in several cases) they cannot offer the same package as the above mentioned manufacturers. There is not a comprehensive US dealer network for parts, service, technical info (at least not like the mainsteam US dealers). Nor is there any abundance of machines to choose from. I know for me if i am on the fence about buying a new machine and i am waiting to land the right contract i dont have the time to wait for the dealer to order me a machine and wait for it be shipped (with long lead times so i hear). I need the machine right now so i can make the money to pay for it.

Once again i am not bashing JCB saying they make crappy equipment. Also, i am only referring to skid steers. No matter how much i liked the machine i would never buy one for the lack of support after the sale (i am assuming from what i wrote above) and the very poor resale value (that i know for a fact)
 
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dave esterns

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
597
Location
madison
ah well for me there are 6 locations within 1.5 hours of me selling jcb skid steers. talk about sweet.

a lot of the things i said about case i admit were trivial. but the argument was originally about the door handle on the jcb, dont see how something could be more trivial.

well. jcb is in kind of a tough spot. the problem with selling in the US is the size of it. the first thing you need to have if your trying to enter a market is a good machine. jcb clearly couldnt have done a better job on their skid steer than they did. so the rest will probably come with time.

i already said i liked the case series 3. but...if i buy one...and love it...what would i get to replace it?? if the 440 had a vertical boom and the 435/445/465/450 cab on it (quite a bit nicer) i would buy a couple of them and hope someone has something within ten years to replace it.

the jcb skid steer plant in savanah is turning out skid steers as fast as they can, it will take more time to get some sitting around.

dealers probably wont want to stock them because they know people usually go with what they know... and jcb is not it. its hard to convince people they want something when they are stuck in a rut. its not that the dealers dont have faith in what they are selling, its that they dont have faith people will be willing to buy it.

i put jcb with deere, case, nh, etc because jcb has a worldwide reputation of making good machines and they are third in the world for machine volume on construction equipment.

i dont see why volvo branding the jcb skid steer does anything, because volvo hasn't been able to sell their own skid steers.
 
D

Digdeep

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
704
Location
Wisconsin
dave esterns said:
ah well for me there are 6 locations within 1.5 hours of me selling jcb skid steers. talk about sweet.

a lot of the things i said about case i admit were trivial. but the argument was originally about the door handle on the jcb, dont see how something could be more trivial.

well. jcb is in kind of a tough spot. the problem with selling in the US is the size of it. the first thing you need to have if your trying to enter a market is a good machine. jcb clearly couldnt have done a better job on their skid steer than they did. so the rest will probably come with time.

i already said i liked the case series 3. but...if i buy one...and love it...what would i get to replace it?? if the 440 had a vertical boom and the 435/445/465/450 cab on it (quite a bit nicer) i would buy a couple of them and hope someone has something within ten years to replace it.

the jcb skid steer plant in savanah is turning out skid steers as fast as they can, it will take more time to get some sitting around.

dealers probably wont want to stock them because they know people usually go with what they know... and jcb is not it. its hard to convince people they want something when they are stuck in a rut. its not that the dealers dont have faith in what they are selling, its that they dont have faith people will be willing to buy it.

i put jcb with deere, case, nh, etc because jcb has a worldwide reputation of making good machines and they are third in the world for machine volume on construction equipment.

i dont see why volvo branding the jcb skid steer does anything, because volvo hasn't been able to sell their own skid steers.
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Dave..JCB's biggest challenge in North America are it's poor dealer network and mediocre product reputation. I'm not opining on the rest of their overseas markets.

Of course the factory in Savannah is busy...they now build all of their skid steers there...for all of the other overseas markets where they are stronger. It's not difficult to see why their production has increased because of this. I agree with you that Volvo is not strong in the compact market either; however, when you consider that Volvo sold substantially more skid steers (scat trak) in the US compared to JCB you can begin to see why JCB has an uphill battle. I'm not saying they won't be successful; they are a private company and they have deep pockets, but it will be a long road to compete with the bread and butter of the US skid steer manufacturers.
 
KSSS

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,336
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
I will make one last comment on this. I mentioned the door because it was as obvious oversight to me.. Its not a matter of just leaning forward and grabbing the door as in a conventional machine but exiting the skid steer to close the door. As I said, it does not mean its a POS just that it seems like a silly thing to over look. Given how fast the JCB rep was apologizing for it, I obvously was not the first to notice. I don't think I have ever seen someone brag about or discuss as much about a product that you dont own or intend at least in the near future to own, or to my knowledge even ran. I find that somewhat odd.
 
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dave esterns

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
597
Location
madison
haha. not only have i not driven one, i have not even seen one! do you want me to go to the local dealer and drive one around just to say i did? im sure they drive around just fine. well i never used to be much into skid steers then suddenly stumbled across this new jcb product, it was love at first sight. i thought to myself..."this is a machine that makes sense." all i had to do was see pics of the skid steer and instantly knew that it was revolutionary. i thought to myself, "there IS something better out there." the side entry has to be the best idea ever. the no screen on the sides has to be the second best idea ever. the visibility is clearly amazing. they are the only ones running pilot controls which is also amazing (besides the little kitty cats and terex wheeled skid steers). they have the most fuel efficient engine in the world, and wont need urea any time soon. they have a LARGE modular cab; and imagine how easy cleaning out your foot area would be (a half hour job at least on the bobcat) [acually i always wondered where all the debris goes in the case foot area?]. the rear door is heavy and protects the engine. the pins and bushings are huge in comparison to others. 50 hour grease interval with half the zerks. i see a lot that i like about the jcb skid steer and nothing i dont. its about time someone looked at the conventional skid steer and said, "but why?" the only thing that remains to be seen is if they are going to be as reliable (not talking about the boom). thats a chance i would be willing to take, (not like im taking a big chance given jcbs good worldwide reputation) not to mention they have a 2 year warranty. and the safety factor. i get out with the boom up probably 1000 times a year, im a little concerned some time it will get me. oh and insurance on a jcb is cheaper because of safety reasons. AND the jcb skid steer is cheaper to buy than the competition. when i look at a skid steer to buy, there has to be reasons to pull me away from bobcat. all i see with the case sv185 is a direct copy of the bobcat s185, so why not just go with the original.
 
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JCBiron

JCBiron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
167
Location
St. Louis, MO
barklee said:
250 units!!! Wow that is low. I would really like to check out a new one, but i have checked every dealer around here and on machinery trader. Nothing to be had or any reassurance that there will be one in this year to look at!
With that said; how can a company sell a product successfully when a customer wants to look at there machine and cant. Most people that are in the market for a new machine would drive on down the road to a "stocking" dealer that has enough faith in there respective product to order machines to market to there customers.

My feeling is that most (not all) JCB dealers dont have the faith in selling a new machine so they dont purchase any for dealer stock.

I'm not by any means running down JCB but i dont know how someone could put them on the same level as a Deere, Cat, Case, Bobcat when (in several cases) they cannot offer the same package as the above mentioned manufacturers. There is not a comprehensive US dealer network for parts, service, technical info (at least not like the mainsteam US dealers). Nor is there any abundance of machines to choose from. I know for me if i am on the fence about buying a new machine and i am waiting to land the right contract i dont have the time to wait for the dealer to order me a machine and wait for it be shipped (with long lead times so i hear). I need the machine right now so i can make the money to pay for it.

Once again i am not bashing JCB saying they make crappy equipment. Also, i am only referring to skid steers. No matter how much i liked the machine i would never buy one for the lack of support after the sale (i am assuming from what i wrote above) and the very poor resale value (that i know for a fact)
Click to expand...

I would like to comment on a couple things here...

First is that every major manufacturer has supply issues when rolling out a completely new product. When you decide to design and build something from a blank sheet of paper, you aren't immediately going to run your factory at full capacity. JCB is no different than anyone else in that regard. The reason my new JCB skids and track loaders aren't here yet is the same reason my new Alpha Series Case Skids aren't here....hold on to your hats....yes, even Case had to push back their new skids. (I know some have shipped, but I still haven't seen the units I have ordered...) John Deere has pushed back their new 9000 series 4wd tractors what seems like a dozen times (partly becuase they can't get the emissions right, and partly for the reasons mentioned above). My point is that all manufacturers take their sweet old time when rolling out new product, I'm just not sure why you are singling out JCB.

As a dealer, I have never had more faith in a product than I have in this new JCB skid. I think one of the reasons is because it is such a far cry from where we came from (on skids). I just can't wait to get them out to customers for demos because I am 100% confident that we can now compete against ANYONE. I've got quite a few coming for dealer stock, as do a lot of other JCB dealers.

I agree that a customer sometimes can't wait to make a purchase, and I don't fault them in the least for that. But I can tell you I have several customers waiting on their purchase to see the new JCB.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, our old machines COULDN'T compete with Deere, Cat, Case, Bobcat 90% of the time, and as much as that sucks to admit as a dealer, it was a reality. However, my job is to show people that these new machines are the real deal, and I've never been more excited to show a new product than I am for this one, so time will tell.

Lastly, I agree 100% that if you don't have the dealer support, a machine isn't worth a whole lot, no matter what brand it is. I know (and so does JCB) that their dealer network isn't as strong as the "Big 3". That is a high goal to achieve, but also know this, there ARE good JCB dealers out there, and there are also poor Case, Deere, and Cat dealers too. Strength of dealer network is very high on their priority list and won't happen over night.
 
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D

Digdeep

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
704
Location
Wisconsin
JCBiron said:
I would like to comment on a couple things here...

First is that every major manufacturer has supply issues when rolling out a completely new product. When you decide to design and build something from a blank sheet of paper, you aren't immediately going to run your factory at full capacity. JCB is no different than anyone else in that regard. The reason my new JCB skids and track loaders aren't here yet is the same reason my new Alpha Series Case Skids aren't here....hold on to your hats....yes, even Case had to push back their new skids. (I know some have shipped, but I still haven't seen the units I have ordered...) John Deere has pushed back their new 9000 series 4wd tractors what seems like a dozen times (partly becuase they can't get the emissions right, and partly for the reasons mentioned above). My point is that all manufacturers take their sweet old time when rolling out new product, I'm just not sure why you are singling out JCB.

As a dealer, I have never had more faith in a product than I have in this new JCB skid. I think one of the reasons is because it is such a far cry from where we came from (on skids). I just can't wait to get them out to customers for demos because I am 100% confident that we can now compete against ANYONE. I've got quite a few coming for dealer stock, as do a lot of other JCB dealers.

I agree that a customer sometimes can't wait to make a purchase, and I don't fault them in the least for that. But I can tell you I have several customers waiting on their purchase to see the new JCB.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, our old machines COULDN'T compete with Deere, Cat, Case, Bobcat 90% of the time, and as much as that sucks to admit as a dealer, it was a reality. However, my job is to show people that these new machines are the real deal, and I've never been more excited to show a new product than I am for this one, so time will tell.

Lastly, I agree 100% that if you don't have the dealer support, a machine isn't worth a whole lot, no matter what brand it is. I know (and so does JCB) that their dealer network isn't as strong as the "Big 3". That is a high goal to achieve, but also know this, there ARE good JCB dealers out there, and there are also poor Case, Deere, and Cat dealers too. Strength of dealer network is very high on their priority list and won't happen over night.
Click to expand...

I think the point he was trying to make about finding a machine didn't have to do with how many machines the factory was now building, but instead the lack of machines in the field due to dealer apathy and lack of customer demand.

I appreciate how you champion the product since every product needs that. Perhaps if JCB finds another 200 dealers like you they'll be on to something. I'm not saying that they can't do it, but I am saying that it will be a long hard road to get there, and they'll have to do it with all of the other OEMs fighting them every step of the way.
 
J

JCBgm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
87
Location
WV, OH, & KY
WV Earthmover,

Have you contacted your local dealer? Don't know where in WV you are, but we're in Charleston. We have the dealerships in Charleston, Louisville, Cinci, and Indy. We've been a dealer for about 8 years now.
 
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