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Here's a bit of history-still happening-FMC/KMC

BrianHay

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
514
Location
Nanaimo B.C
How did I miss thread, very cool! I would love to see more pictures if anyone has them.

It brings back some great memories. My Dad operated one of these for a while when I was a kid.
 

bill5362

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
353
Location
Indiana
Occupation
I own a excavation company and a rolloff container
Interesting tread pretty cool machines, thanks for sharing the pics and videos.... Bill
 

mtplumber

New Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
1
Location
marion OR.
I Worked with these machines in the late 70s to mid 80s. I started on a 200 series. At the time these were going for 200,000.00. The running gear was like you said about 20,000.00. That was a yearly cost. We were logging out of Port Townsend, WA. We checked out the wear patterns on the road wheels, tracks and sprockets. Went to a Seattle foundry and had them re casted to our specs. We were able to get 2 years on a new set. Had problems getting bushings to go in the pads. as I remember we could only get them at Howard Cooper. We were able to change motor, tranny. or final drives in a day and a half in the field. Loved the 6v 53s. We ran 1" main line and 6 chokers. 9 loads a day with 3 men. We did weekly maintaince.
 

log frog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
91
Location
New Zealand
KMC rebuild

I visited with the guys at KMC a couple of years ago, and took a look at what they do. They have been buying up old units, then converting them to as new spec, with modern componentry and an upgraded undercarriage, then sending them out the door with a new serial number and warrranty.
These guys do business worldwide, with units being bought in from as far away as South America, and sold as far as Ukraine.
The rebuilds are more user friendly than the former detroit powered machines, running cummins engines.

The 2500 in the 3rd photo has an extra roadwheel than the smaller units.


KMC 005.jpg

KMC 004.jpg

KMC 025.jpg
 

250c

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
110
Location
Gatesville Tx
I built several fire fighting protypes using the m548 carrier which was the cargo version in the m113 family. They all worked pretty well and several goverment agencys show interest however we were never able to get past the "combat vehicle" statis the goverment placed (prime example of goverment agengy cooperation). I have heard some that made into civilian hands. |I still have roadwheels, diffs, finals and other pieces in my treasure pile.
 

BDFT

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
265
Location
Northwest BC
Funny, you never see them working in the bush in BC anymore, where they're built, and yet they sell them all over the world.
 

Scott S

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
164
Location
Oregon, Willamette Valley
I am pretty sure this is one we owned several years ago and since has been rebuilt,
20110526_14.JPG


Scott S
 

JD955SC

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
1,349
Location
The South
I have seen these chassis with a high reach limb trimmer on them- contractors for powerline companies clearing powerline right of ways.

Looks like the chassis is kinda similar to FMC's M113 APC. Durability issues as noted above would definitely make sense if the FMC skidders were developed from the M113. The M113 was designed to be lightweight for the purposes of airlift, not optimized for durability.
 

245dlc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
1,228
Location
Canada
Occupation
Heavy Equipment Operator
You'd think they'd be available with rubber track by now. The Canadian Army rebuilt and purchased some newer customized versions of the old M-113 with electronically turbocharged 6V53's and in some cases 'stretched' the chassis to make them longer and put rubber tracks made by a Canadian company called Camoplast to replace the old metal track that they normally used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoE0ZHiTCyQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htdQVbmvLgQ&feature=related

http://www.casr.ca/101-army-engineer-mtve.htm

http://www.casr.ca/101-army-armour-tlav-m113a3.htm

Apparently to run rubber tracks on the M-113's they only need a special drive sprocket to convert them over. Not bad for a vehicle type that's been around since the Vietnam war.
 

KW850&T800H

COPPA
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
239
Location
Tete Jaune/Valemount BC
Honestly all you hear leave my mouth when I see the third one, "WOOOOW"
They do amazing work!

I visited with the guys at KMC a couple of years ago, and took a look at what they do. They have been buying up old units, then converting them to as new spec, with modern componentry and an upgraded undercarriage, then sending them out the door with a new serial number and warrranty.
These guys do business worldwide, with units being bought in from as far away as South America, and sold as far as Ukraine.
The rebuilds are more user friendly than the former detroit powered machines, running cummins engines.

The 2500 in the 3rd photo has an extra roadwheel than the smaller units.


View attachment 86328

View attachment 86329

View attachment 86330
 
Last edited:

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
90
Location
vancouver canada
I bought my first FMC 210 when building power line near Castlegar in 1977. Worst thing I ever did. I fell in love with those contraptions and wasted years of my life making and paying for repairs while always looking for a more challenging job to see if I could stick 'em. Got stuck several times but needed another FMC or a Cat dozer to pull it out. Got stuck for 6 days one time on a mining job. Had 4 wolves for company. I always had my 45 Combat Commander in the shoulder holster just in case they wanted more than Spam sandwiches. I was lucky to get her out. Working alone miles from nowhere, water covered the seat but engine was just clear enough to start up due to up slope angle. Whew!

Amazing machines. Too much fun. Could not afford to log with them but no other log skidder could come close to equalling their go anywhere ability and that arch was a gem of engineering if used properly. Too many never really understood how to use it.

I did mostly powerline work or fighting forest fires, scarifying, tool carrier etc. or with the water tanks I built or digging with the 580 case extendahoe. My water tanks were square like yours, with pump all mounted on top. Held about 1000 gallons. Could be placed on back of machine loaded with water in a few minutes. Put out a fire on Blackcomb Mtn. at Whistler when the first ski runs were being built in 1978 or 79. Fire truck hoses were too short. Slapped on the loaded tank, chugged up the new ski run and no more fire.

Dug a lot of the footings for the first lifts on Blackcomb with the 580 hoe. Later did a lot of work with BC Hydro. Built lite brush rakes for land clearing and dug structure sites for Hydro here and there. Did mining exploration with the hoe and had lots of adventures. Hauled water one spring for Blackcomb when the water system failed on the ski hill, Great job. Good people to work for. I could go on.

The steering differential was made of magnesium. Lite material that sucked up gear noise which is why the military used it. But the diff. would evaporate if dirt got packed around it. The T-bars should have had twice the durometer and needed stops to prevent them from being pushed the wrong direction. The FMC dealer never quite believed me on this, but I bought very few T-bars after that modification. The splines would often wear out before the bar failed!!!!

I bought 10 bars from Danzco Machine Shop in Oregon as they were stronger ( thicker ) and much cheaper. Could go faster as suspension sat higher and climb was improved, not that this was needed. Had 1" x 2 1/4" T-1 bands welded to the road wheels. Couldn't wear them out!

Mechanically they were tough. The finals, never failed me. The Clark winch is a marvel of elegant, maintenance free engineering and the engine being a 6-53 series Jimmy was indestructible if oil and water were kept where they were supposed to be. Never overheated, esp. after I went to high volume fiberglass fans. The tranny was bullet proof. I ran 10W - 30 high detergent engine oil in the tranny. No converter or tranny problems. That ATF is crap oil for heavy duty applications.

The tracks were the real weak point. The rubber bushings were not up to the job. I built my own bushing press and fitted it to the shop truck. Pull out a few pads, bush 'em up on site, ready for the morning and another fun day of lets see what this puppy can do! Damn they were addictive machines. The best way FMC could improve, a word they never understood, the bushing issue would have been to go to a double pin system like the Sherman and later tanks. I bet even A SALT track would have run circles around the rubber bushed units for availability.

Well I should close. Getting too worked up!
 

Puffie40

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Southeastern B.C.
Challenge for you photographers

I have been tossing the idea around to build a scale model of a FMC 210, and I need some high-resolution reference photographs to get measurements from. The main shots I need are side and front/back views(As straight as you can get them) , and as many detail shots as I can get.

I am willing to pay you a little bit of money for if you get a CD's worth of non-sized images
 

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
90
Location
vancouver canada
I have been tossing the idea around to build a scale model of a FMC 210, and I need some high-resolution reference photographs to get measurements from. The main shots I need are side and front/back views(As straight as you can get them) , and as many detail shots as I can get.

I am willing to pay you a little bit of money for if you get a CD's worth of non-sized images


Hi Puffie40:

I don't have many photos of the FMC skidder. I recommend you contact the dealer, if there is still one around. Last I heard, some years ago the dealer is now KMC, a subsidiary of sorts of Kootenay Tractor located in Nelson, BC.

I would think that with a bit of luck they could put you onto drawings and measurements etc. I'm sure they will do their best to be helpful as they were great people to deal with in the past.

One day, can't say when, I will get digging thru my photos and get a shot of the water tank and Case 580 hoe on the FMC 210 CA. Looking back I can only wonder why I didn't take more pics. Too busy working I guess.

Good luck.
 

lg junior

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
205
Location
oregon
fitzpatrick; If you have pictures of your bushing press I would be greatly interested. Or even a detailed description of how it was constructed.

Leonard
 

Doug1966

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
130
Location
Victoria BC
Occupation
Woodworker
Maybe??

Hi. I'm in Victoria now, but I remember a few of these around Quesnel when I was growing up. I'll put out some feelers to see if there are any around. What scale models ddo you build? I'm doing 1/24-25 scale trucks. Check out my site. www.dougsscaletruckreplicas.com. Thanks Doug.




I have been tossing the idea around to build a scale model of a FMC 210, and I need some high-resolution reference photographs to get measurements from. The main shots I need are side and front/back views(As straight as you can get them) , and as many detail shots as I can get.

I am willing to pay you a little bit of money for if you get a CD's worth of non-sized images
 

Scott S

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
164
Location
Oregon, Willamette Valley
I have been tossing the idea around to build a scale model of a FMC 210, and I need some high-resolution reference photographs to get measurements from. The main shots I need are side and front/back views(As straight as you can get them) , and as many detail shots as I can get.

I am willing to pay you a little bit of money for if you get a CD's worth of non-sized images

There is a 210 for sale at Oregon Tractor in PDX http://oregontractor.com/product.php?productid=12&categoryid=27

Maybe they can help.

Scott S
 

Puffie40

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Southeastern B.C.
Hi. I'm in Victoria now, but I remember a few of these around Quesnel when I was growing up. I'll put out some feelers to see if there are any around. What scale models do you build? I'm doing 1/24-25 scale trucks. Check out my site. www.dougsscaletruckreplicas.com. Thanks Doug.

Thanks. The KMC dealer is a few hours away from Yahk, but school (Electronics engineering in Kelowna) has bigger priorities than a road trip right now :).

I don't have much experience with scale models (Aside from a IH TD18 I built from Lego), but I do have some experience with machining and fabrication.

What I sort of have in mind is a 1:16 (Or larger - maybe 1:8?) model that can be remote controlled - similar to this project (As well as many others like it on that site). Right now, I'm thinking 1/16 mainly because I might be able to use tracks from an RC tank and be able to use smaller drive motors.

I have a spec sheet for the 210, so I know some of the "Actual" measurements to use as reference points on the pictures. I'll sketch the parts in a CAD program before I go gung-ho and start cutting metal.
 

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
90
Location
vancouver canada
Hi lg junior:

I don't have a picture of the bushing press. However I will attempt to draw you a verbal picture. Get a coffee and turn off Led Zeppelin and no whisky.

You gotta visualize big time. The unit was made of heavy 4" steel angle. Bits of this and that. It lay horizontal. It was about 3 feet long and a bit wider than a track pad about 26" or so. A separated and single track pad was put into the frame works with the center guide DOWN. There were small guide points welded on to position the pad. Two big 'C Clamps' held the pad in the unit. Lots of fun getting these things just right. You will probably come up with something better. A 10 ton hydraulic bottle jack did the pushing. It was a bit on the weak side but a tiger torch would get the dead bushing's attention.

Remember, you will push only One bushing at a time. When the bushing exits the bushing bore, then use the longer 'track pin pusher' for the next bushing which will be in line with the bushing just pushed out.

The two long bushings would be pushed out, as an example, the bores cleaned and GENUINE FMC magic fluid would be applied to the new bushing. Unless you know about a substitute, don't even think about using something else. I had an open can with this fluid in it. Roll the bushing in the fluid, insert pusher pin into the bushing. Get fingers moving, tongue sticking out of side of ur mouth, raise one eyebrow and start pumping the jack. The rubber will really stretch but a touch of pre heat BEFORE you put the pushing in the press, expands the bore but don't overdo the heat. You'll figure it out. You have to push the bushing in a tad further than needed. I made up a threaded puller to pull the bushing back a bit to get it positioned just right if I went to far. Eventually, with practice getting perfect, automatic pull back will be no problem and the bushing will be perfectly placed right away.

A second jack on the opposite end of the press unit would be ideal for a quick shove on the bushing to get it positioned just right if you go too far.

ALWAYS do the furthest bushing first. You may find otherwise. Keep shortening up the pusher pins as you work the bushings away from the jack. I connected two pieces of track pins for more length by cutting an old bushing center in half and slipping the two pusher pins into this as a coupler. Of course, the threaded ends of the old pusher track pin have to be cut off. More on this later. This must be confusing but I'm sure I'm putting some useful thoughts into your head somehow.

The jack was put on its side with the pump on the bottom. Of course. Make sure jack is a tad overfilled with oil.

Old track pins were cut up for different pushing lengths. The metal six sided part of an old bushing was used as a pusher against the dead bushing. This part was slipped over the track pin which was to be used as the pusher. Slip a another bushing steel centre on the pin to act as as a stopper between the jack and the new or old bushing when pushing. Otherwise the jack will simply push the pusher track pin thru the old or new bushing. I welded a washer on a few of the pusher pins to do this but slipping on an extra bushing centre or two worked well.You gotta experiment with the lengths. The side of the pad with the two Big Bushings used diff. lengths of pushers than the other side with the three bushings.

Honestly, I shouldn't even attempt a verbal description since speech isn't my native tongue. We haven't even got to the tricky part and I'm sure my crude attempts are confusing you.

Oh Kay! Now for the tricky part. I don't think I could even draw what I'm about to tell you next. As you know, the bushings have a 6 sided steel centre into which slides the six sided track pin. When the bushing is in the pad, the six sides of the centre are not at right angles to the pad. They are off square just a tad to facilitate the track strand's easy curving around the drive sprocket and rear idler. I think this was not needed but it is there anyway. That is why when a new strand of track is released from the shipping bands, the track will try to unroll.

So, if you look at good bushings in a pad you will see this slight diff. You will notice this when pounding in track pins. The pads to be joined have to be NOT flat. Right? Too much fun.

So eyeball this angle. Its not a large angle. Just get it real close. Even if you want to have the angles at right angles to the pad, you still have to have the bushings in agreement with each other or the pin wont go in. I figure you this. LOL
Now the tricky part.

When putting the new bushings into the pad, they have to have this angle to mate up with the other pads when pounding the pins in. So, on the head of the jack, the push part with the screw end, I welded a short, say 1/2" or so length of the 6 sided bushing centre onto the end of the jack. Then I welded a piece of 1" x 1/4" mild steel which would fit in a guide on the press, beneath the track pad. This guide ran the length of the press. You gotta exp. with the angle of the guide tab and the bit of bushing centre which is welded to the jack.

The idea is, when the guide tab is in the guide, the bit of bushing center welded to the jack will put the bushing into the pad at the correct angle because the pusher pin is inserted into the new bushing so the angles are the same all around. See, the old six sided track pin will fit nicely into the six sided piece on the end of the jack. The old pusher pin will slip into the new six sided bushing and all will be well as far as getting the correct angle on the new bushing.

When doing the side of the pad with the three bushings, there will be a different groove guide which the tab on the jack will drop into and the bushings on the opposite side will have the correct bushing angle. Now that you know this is what one needs to watch out for, you will figure out how to best go about it. I'm sure I got brain damage when I conjured the press up. I was logging in the Queen Charlottes and paying freight from there to Nelson was prohibitive. Not to mention the one month turnaround. I could change the side with 2 big bushings within an hour. The side with three bushings was always more challenging. You'll find out. I would usually change the side with two. The side with three bushings was usually okay.

Hope this helps. It's really not that complicated once you get a start on fabbing up the press. There's lotsa ways to skin a cat so I'm sure you'll get something satisfactory with a bit of trial and error. It's worth it.

To push the short bushings, lift the pad out of the press, turn it and clamp. More experimenting with the line up. You'll see.
 
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