Buying 2nd Hand

Hi there folks,

I'm based in Indonesia, where i own a small resort. I'm looking into getting a mini-ex to allow me to dig a few holes, build a few paths and do general maintenance in the resort over the next few years.

I recently checked out a 2nd hand machine sent from Japan, it hand been resprayed (i know, stay away).

I did some checks, the machine had no problem lifting itself up on the blade, and also had no problem lifting itself up using the bucket. The hydraulics seemed fine from my limited knowledge, although a little jumpy.

However my concern was the looseness around the pins in the arm and bucket-

On the bucket, when changing direction ot the rotation of the cab the bucket would make quite some noise as it bounced around on the pin (i wasnt operating!)

Also, the pin in the mid section of the arm seemed loose, how much should you be able to swing the bucket and last section of the arm (left to right by hand when standing in front). I reckon i was getting about 4" in each direction.

Finally, the rotation mechanism for the whole cab, how much give should that have? If i pushed the arm i could get the bucket to move a few inches left or right coming from the axis under the cab. Is that normal too on an old machine?

2nd hand Minis are hard to find out here, and cost a lot more than in other countries due to the taxes that we have here.


Thanks for any help you can offer,

Simon

Sounds to me like you have a 2nd hand machine witjh some pin wear. If you are only using it for odd jobs, just grease it up and it will be fine for some time. The axis movement does not appear to be a problem. I would be more concerned about up and down movement in the axis. What brand and size machine? Try using some of these wear problems to negotiate the price down. Most 2nd hand machines that come into Australia have similar issues as the Japanese dont seem to grease their machines much.

Japanese machines are notorious for lack of maintenance, a lot of machines are bought for one particular project and then auctioned off.
Unless it is real cheap i would keep looking.

They dont change oil much if at all in Japan be wary,I brought a used late model engine from there once and the oil pick up was clogged with bad/burnt oil.Never again!

It was a Kobelco ##19, i cant remember the full details, they are sending me a fact sheet soon.

They think it will go for less the $10k USD (its in an auction), but then i have to add 25%duty and $500USD in bribes for port clearance, and another $1k for shipping to my location. So about $14,000usd for a mini from Japan. I'm wondering if im better buying new or importing one myself rather than buying from someone who is clearly an agent.

At the same time, i havent seen a unit go for less than $10k here no matter how beat up it is.

That seems a bit on the high side to me, but I could be wrong? I'm sure others can be more helpfull. Do you have pictures, that might help some?

Scuba_Si said:

They think it will go for less the $10k USD (its in an auction), but then i have to add 25%duty and $500USD in bribes for port clearance, and another $1k for shipping to my location. So about $14,000usd for a mini from Japan. I'm wondering if im better buying new or importing one myself rather than buying from someone who is clearly an agent.

At the same time, i havent seen a unit go for less than $10k here no matter how beat up it is.

Click to expand...

The problem I see with importing yourself is that you may end up with a piece of junk, unless you can have it inspected in Japan by a competent person.
There are several companies that specialize in exporting S/H machines from Japan. There are also online auctions, such as Iron Planet but once again, buying sight unseen is a risk.
I suppose you can check out new machines if your pockets are deep enough and the work for the machine will justify the cost but do your research and get all the options on the table.

Hendrik said:

The problem I see with importing yourself is that you may end up with a piece of junk, unless you can have it inspected in Japan by a competent person.
There are several companies that specialize in exporting S/H machines from Japan. There are also online auctions, such as Iron Planet but once again, buying sight unseen is a risk.
I suppose you can check out new machines if your pockets are deep enough and the work for the machine will justify the cost but do your research and get all the options on the table.

Click to expand...

Good Points made by all.

After your last comment Hendrik, i'm starting to think that buying from here might be the best option. I'm still worried about ending up with something that breaks too quickly. Is there an existing thread about what to check when buying a Second?

Also, how much digging power does the 'adjustable' beam take away? The extra weight of the additional piston and linkages must take away quite a bit i would think.

Thanks for all the feedback!

Hendrik said:

The problem I see with importing yourself is that you may end up with a piece of junk, unless you can have it inspected in Japan by a competent person.
There are several companies that specialize in exporting S/H machines from Japan. There are also online auctions, such as Iron Planet but once again, buying sight unseen is a risk.
I suppose you can check out new machines if your pockets are deep enough and the work for the machine will justify the cost but do your research and get all the options on the table.

Click to expand...

Good Points made by all.

After your last comment Hendrik, i'm starting to think that buying from here might be the best option. I'm still worried about ending up with something that breaks too quickly. Is there an existing thread about what to check when buying a Second?

Also, how much digging power does the 'adjustable' beam take away? The extra weight of the additional piston and linkages must take away quite a bit i would think.

Thanks for all the feedback!

Another quick question... How much extra $$$ do you think metal tracks are worth on a second hand unit? Thanks

less not more

Scuba_Si said:

After your last comment Hendrik, i'm starting to think that buying from here might be the best option. I'm still worried about ending up with something that breaks too quickly. Is there an existing thread about what to check when buying a Second?

Also, how much digging power does the 'adjustable' beam take away? The extra weight of the additional piston and linkages must take away quite a bit i would think.

Click to expand...

Not sure if there is an actual thread about buying a S/H mini but there are tips about the place for buying an ex in general.
Seems to me that SE Asia is used as a dumping ground for those Japanese machines that are not good enough for the US, Euro or Oz market and as such finding a reasonable S/H machine may be difficult, unless it is a local S/H machine.

The offset boom feature is something that is not really needed in general digging work and is more of a thing for confined/tight access work. I would stay away from the offset boom machines unless you think you'll really need that. Generally a machine with a swing/swivel boom is better and does much the same as the offset setup, however there again, poor maintenance will soon wear out the linkages of the swing setup.

Thanks for the additional feedback,

How hard are worn linkages and pins to replace? In indonesia it is pretty easy to get a workshop to build up whatever you want.

I live just across the water from a shipyard town, so i can get things made up pretty easily, it takes me about a day to get fittings for my hydraulic boat engines made up, and a worn bearing mount on a genset can be re-welded and cleaned up and put back to work in a day. Obviously those are non releavant examples, but maybe a fixer-upper is the best i can hope for on a budget out here.

From my memory of servicing boat hydraulics some years ago, jumpy controls can be easy to maintain, providing they are not the newer joystick / electronic type.

A Hitachi ZX40U-3, is USD 52,000 new including taxes, which i assume will be a lot more than it is elsewhere in the world to give an example. I dont have deep enough pockets to go new!

If you knowledgeable folks think that work parts can be repaired when they eventually break then i might well go for an old machine and try to fix it up a bit.

I have had over the last 17 years, 7 imported 2nd hand machines from Japan. In the early days there was limited internet to view them and we took our chances. I never had a major expense or breakdown on any of them. Basically, we had to fix 1 or 2 pins per machine ($500 - $1000) and 1 needed a radiator repair($600). They all got a very thorough service and grease and a full check on the cooling system when I got them home. I imported 4 myself and the profit from the first 3 paid for the 4th, that was before all the big companies started doing it. I guess my view is, that if you are prepared to get your hands dirty and fix and maintain to a reasonable level, just go for it, because it is probably better than going into debt. Just buy the best you can afford and dont fall for the trap of buying an old clunker. I now am on my 3rd new Cat because I built my business and experience thru imported machines.

you have to be shure you can get spare parts here...........
some excavator from ather contry you can get parts her,look whit serial number...
good lock