Another Perkins Pukes

Steve Frazier · Dec 28, 2010

I was using my Cat 248 this morning to clear snow and the oil light/beeper came on. Within a few seconds I heard a rod knock and tried to get the machine turned around and off the road, but it locked up tight a few seconds later. I'm pretty upset about this, I didn't check but I think there are just 1300+ hours on it and I've serviced it as recommended since new. I always let the machine warm up before working it hard and let it cool down before shutting it off.

So are these things rebuildable or is it junk? Not what I needed at all during these tough economic times.

bill onthehill · Dec 28, 2010

Dang! Did you develop a major oil leak or do you think it dropped the pump? As for rebuilding it that will really depend on what a teardown reveals. Snow removal should not be that hard on it unless you were running WOT running a blower when it decided to puke. The perkapillars have a varied success as some have had real good luck and other have gone through several remans.

wilddanz71 · Dec 28, 2010

The same dam thing hapened to me yesterday!! I got a naturaly asperated perkins in my JCB and about a foot from the road the dam thing stalled out on me!! I dont think the motor is done ( hope like hell it isnt) wont start at all and I caught something on the starter on fire while trying to start it. I think it is a fuel isue? It only has 750 hours too!!
Steve hope you didnt loose your motor!

cps · Dec 28, 2010

Hi Steve, Does you Engine have an oil cooler at the filter? If so check is it blocked as i had one lose all pressure a few months ago due to a blocked cooler, took me a while to find it! Done no damage to the engine though but you may have ben the unluckly one!

John C. · Dec 28, 2010

Did you buy the machine new? Have you talked with your local dealer about the issue? I wouldn't have thought you should have that kind of a problem with that few of hours.

Steve Frazier · Dec 28, 2010

Bought the machine new and have always serviced it per the manual. I never have run it hard and only use as much throttle as needed to do the work. It has a foot throttle, the only time I set the hand throttle is when using a driven attachment. I have used the machine extensively to blow snow which is at full throttle but there is not really a load on the engine when blowing snow. I always warm the machine 20 minutes before starting the blower.

I was using the bucket when it blew, I was only a few hundred rpm above idle. I heard a high pitched "ping", like metal snapping under tension just before the oil light/beeper came on. Oil level is fine. I don't know the internals of this engine, but if I were guessing I'd say whatever drives the oil pump broke.

John C. · Dec 29, 2010

I'd start by pulling the oil filter and cutting it apart to see if something other than oil is in it. Next check to see if you can turn the engine by hand. If it turns OK, then pull the valve cover and see if the rockers go up and down like they should.

I'd also get a hold of the dealer and start asking pointed questions about updates and problem children.

watglen · Dec 30, 2010

Keep us posted Steve.

I have a 257b with a perkins(CAT 3024) and now you've got me worried.

Lee-online · Dec 30, 2010

I have only seen 1 or 2 but i have seen the oil pick up tube come loose and fall off. Never had any oil pump problems, they are gear driven directly off the crank. There is a relief valve on the front cover that could have failed.

What happened after the oil pressure was lost? Who knows.

jrtraderny · Dec 30, 2010

Steve Frazier said:
I was using my Cat 248 this morning to clear snow and the oil light/beeper came on. Within a few seconds I heard a rod knock and tried to get the machine turned around and off the road, but it locked up tight a few seconds later. I'm pretty upset about this, I didn't check but I think there are just 1300+ hours on it and I've serviced it as recommended since new. I always let the machine warm up before working it hard and let it cool down before shutting it off.

So are these things rebuildable or is it junk? Not what I needed at all during these tough economic times.

Steve , get ahold of your dealer. I traded off a 247B with 500 hrs that was sucking 3 qts of oil a day.
Bought a new 247B2 oil sampled @ 100 hrs. antifreeze in oil, just resampled @ 150 hrs.to make sure before it goes back to Milton Cat for repairs.
Anyways my salesman claims Cat has replaced these engines with up to 5-6000 hrs. on them @ no charge.
Especially if you have the service records.
jr

Steve Frazier · Dec 31, 2010

I called the dealer and he said he'd look into help for me but made no promises. The machine is 10 years old with the low hours, the last 3 years my market has taken a dump. It will be a while before I can tear into it, I've got repairs to make on my trucks first but I'll be sure to post the carnage when I do.

DGODGR · Dec 31, 2010

I'm sorry to hear about your engine. I must admit that I'm a little surprised to hear about trouble with Perkins engines. I have never (before now) heard anything but positive comments on Perkins engines. I, myself, have a backhoe (3054 I believe) that has over 12,000 hours. It has run like a champ since day one (I bought it new in '97). I wish you luck.

Steve Frazier · Dec 31, 2010

I always believed that Perkins were good engines too, I had no hesitation purchasing this machine knowing it was a Perkins in it. However, if you surf around this site, you'll find quite a few instances where the engines in the Cat skids have puked at what would be considered a premature death. A close friend of mine was shopping for a Cat skid and told me he saw many machines advertised with new engines with relatively low hours. There seems to be some type of problem with them in this application.

I got a chance to look at the machine today, there's nothing protruding from the pan or block so I think the crank seized. No oil to be found in the engine compartment, the engine seems intact.

willie59 · Dec 31, 2010

Steve Frazier said:
A close friend of mine was shopping for a Cat skid and told me he saw many machines advertised with new engines with relatively low hours. There seems to be some type of problem with them in this application.

I haven't been into the innards of the Perkapillar engine, worked on many of the old school Perkins engines, I'd wager there are some design differences with the Cat model engines. If there is some type of design or component flaw, once you get some info from inside your engine, I'm certain you will report it here. I hope it doesn't turn out to be an expensive repair for ya.

OneWelder · Dec 31, 2010

I would check the cam / cam-bearings- I seem to remember something about the three cylinders getting a bad batch of cams that resulted in the cam bearings spinning
this was years ago , and you said that yours is 10 yrs old

motrack · Dec 31, 2010

Back when I worked for the local Cat house saw many little Perkins die a early death mostly from oil pump pickup tubes. Cat was decent about covering the tab for out of warranty machines...... Helps if your a big Cat customer.

Only difference between a Perkins and a Cat in the same engine series is the yellow paint and about $1100.00...... I been thru that.

willie59 · Dec 31, 2010

motrack said:
Back when I worked for the local Cat house saw many little Perkins die a early death mostly from oil pump pickup tubes. Cat was decent about covering the tab for out of warranty machines...... Helps if your a big Cat customer.

Only difference between a Perkins and a Cat in the same engine series is the yellow paint and about $1100.00...... I been thru that.

Hmm, the oil pump pick up tube breaks off or something?

motrack · Jan 1, 2011

Saw them broke off and saw them cracked causing eratic PSI.

KSSS · Jan 1, 2011

Those engines have had problems. A friend of mine had 300 hours on his 236 and it locked up. Had to fight to get it covered (out of warranty and the skid steer is the only piece of equipment he owns). He threaten to tell everyone he knows what a POS the machine and the dealer is. He got his machine covered. I remember some posts on here stating that they were quoted around 10K to replace the engine. That is a crazy amount of money.

RocksnRoses · Jan 2, 2011

Steve, I know exactly the frustration you are feeling when the main machine you are relying on goes down. It has happened to me numerous times over the years, you make a big investment in what you think should be a reliable machine and through no fault of your own, it lets you down.

I know nothing about Cat skidsteers, but there was a time here in Australia, where in the agricultural sector and other areas as well, Perkins engines were the predominant engine being used and their reliability was second to none. Whether that has changed since Cat took them over, I don't know, however, with Cat's reputation, I would have thought not.

While surfing the net today, I came across a couple of articles relating to Perkins/Cat engines, that another chap has posted on other forums and when I read them, I thought of your problems and I wondered if there might be a connection.

Here are the links to his posts, they are both very similar. They are posted by a chap called 'onetrack'.

http://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1285398039

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-...inental-engine-co-sold-chinese-interests.html

In the second link it is post #10.

Best of luck and I hope you your dealer does the right thing.

RnR.

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