Komatsu/Deere/Cat 40-50 ton hoes

Well I have been pretty silent... I had a thought a few weeks ago and then all I could smell was smoke for weeks.

Anyways I have been doing some pondering about the 40-50 ton hoe market. You have Cat testing out the new 349E.... Deere I am sure is not far behind with the 450E hoes... hopefully. You have the 2 current models the 345D and 450D, each around 45 tons roughly.

Then you have the japanese yellow... Komatsu. The PC400, I have been working around/with one the last few months and it makes me wonder why? The 2 big players are sitting between 45-50 tons, and then Komatsu staying light at 40 ton but expecting to compete with everyone else.

Case has their 460, Kobelco has a 460, Hyundai runs a 460 don't they? Link Belt has a 460. I guess you could say they are stickin with the 400 to carve out their own little niche market.

Now running the machine, I personally am not a fan of the Komatsu line, their always light in the back end, they never seem to multi-task nicely and they look and feel cheap.

Anyone have any insider news on maybe a 450...500 sized hoe coming out? Also what are the thoughts from people that have run the 400 vs. the 450 or 345. I am biased away from the Komatsu but this is because I grew up with Deere iron at home.

Don't forget Volvo's 460.

Komatsu has the PC450.

Burnout said:

Anyone have any insider news on maybe a 450...500 sized hoe coming out?

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I am assuming you are talking about Komatsu, they already have one - http://www.komatsuamerica.com/excavators-PC450LC-8

It's around 98-100K operating weight.

Looked around on the Komatsu site.... They still group it with the 3.75yd bucket? Kinda small isn't it? I mean you see a lot of 345's cruisin around with 4.5yd buckets and even some 5's if your daring.

As for the Volvo 460.... when I am looking for a nice family hoe with side impact airbags... I'll look at Volvo.

burnout, i see more 400 vs 450 komy's around here but way more 450clc/450d's and 345. Like you the kom's have been light in the arse and was a little slow/ weak on arm power and track power. Rathen then that were fast as crap and did everything else desent. kom,volvo,link-belt/case just felt cheap even thoe i kinda liked the case's. Never have cared for anything cat period. I started growing up liking cat then that quickly change. Copy CAT"s in my book. To me the 45-ton hoes are pretty close. But deere and cat are at the top. I wish the 450D had the deere motor back in her but ol well. Its hard to beat the deeretachi combo. Great machine, right in the middle on price and never have had a problem on getting parts and service. And the way things are going its a good time to buy iron cause they are giving good apr's and deals in general.

in fact you have a lot of choice....you can ad doosan (dx 420-480) and kobelco (sk485lc) in this market....but since you seem to stick with cat or deere...then its your only choice...

In general I am not a huge fan of Cat hoes. But The 345 is one machine I do loooove. I have been in a couple Series 2 B models that were blazing fast and had tons of power. I have only really run one C model and it was the same, fast, precise and comfortable. I have run quite a few Deere 450's from the old 992D/E to the first gen 450's and the new D series. I love them, can't say enough good things about them.

I spent some time nosing around Komatsu's site last night and it just doesn't seem like it competes with the Deere/Cat machines.

I have had conversations with members from here, one in particular always brings up what I consider grey iron hoes all the time and he gets frustrated with me when I call them all crap. Grey iron to me honestly means... Volvo, Hyundai, Samsung, Kobelco, JCB and so on. Now most of these manufacturers are not grey iron, they are reputable equipment manufacturers. But they don't have a presence here in the west. I am a brand who*e I can admit it. I look at even Komastsu as a cheap alternative if you can't afford either Cat or Deere. Doesn't mean its right, but it's how I feel.

If I went out today and bought myself a Deere 450D, even an early model 450 LC, or a Cat 345B or a C... or D I know these machines I can get parts for. A pump goes down in one of these hoe's... the dealer support is there for me. Now if I toss a pump in my Kobelco 485 are they there for me? Same with my Komatsu, they do have a network, unfortunately around here their parts selection doesn't seem to filter down to the little guy.

i understand for sure...but you would be surprised how these like you call them "grey market" can have a good service sometime....it all depend of the dealership...the brand don"t have much importance today!! except if you like a brand in particular of course...

myself i love cat hoes id stick with cat for everything except their TLB i love case TLB theb best. deere would be my second runner up for trackhoes ive been on the 200dlc i think it was. It was fast go response, bucket break out force was amazing and comfortable. cat to me is the best love them cofort repsonse power thats just my opinion.

zxa said:

i understand for sure...but you would be surprised how these like you call them "grey market" can have a good service sometime....it all depend of the dealership...the brand don"t have much importance today!! except if you like a brand in particular of course...

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Brand can have more of an impact than you might think. I used to run a Daewoo 130 LC-V, it was a great fast little hoe and well balanced. But it overheated like crazy when you ran it in power mode, and so did its twin. It also consumed oil, at 4000hrs it had a major structural failure, the fuel gauge never worked and c'mon its a 130, so why can't you grease it in one position?

I am 6'4" and curled up in a greasing position I can't reach the fittings for the boom/stick joint, or the stick cylinder.

Our Daewoo dealer, which is the only one in Ontario that I know of... was a Case agricultural dealer. Service was decent, but not what I would expect for your production machine.

Hi burny boy, hope all is well. My opinnion on the rigs you mentioned above is as follows. 345b some are great, some are dogs. 345c is a great hoe. 400 komatsu,s slower than cats not as multi functional, 7 and 8 series are big improvements but still fall short of 345 hoes, although they have better lift capacity. never really ran all the other iron you mentioned but really feel there is`nt much difference in any of them outside of paint. I know I meet a lot of skepticism on here but I will take a totally rebuilt 200 series cat over any of those rigs previously mentioned anyday.:drinkup

No offence to the grey market machine owners out there but i have to agree that when i see a doosan,case,kobelco ect. I start to think that either that company doesnt care about their production or they cant afford anything else, Im sorry but i bleed deere and cat, i have run a new 225 case that my 160lc out dug and I humord jcb by demoing a 330 from them and it was -20C out and it wouldnt even start to unload off of the trailer, not to mention when they took me to the factory at savana GA there was nothing in the demo grounds to write home about.

as for Volvo they should stick to making stuff with wheels

What is it that you guys don't like with Volvo?

they are built out of plastic other than that i cant say i havent run one

Its back to the old saying u get watch u pay for...

Our company has Volvo hoes, and personally I don't care for them. Seem to have little things always wrong with them, dumb stuff but still. Give me a Cat or Deere any day...

I this area of the US the Komatsu 400 has been king for a long time. When you know how to set them up I have personally seen them run rings around all the other makes hands down. The problem I have again personally seen is the manufacturer sets up the hydraulics all on the bottom end of the specifications and the dealers don't check pressures and reset as part of the pre-delivery. Instead they wait until the customer complains and then they go out and do the placating.

The bigger problem with them though is in repair and resale. Most of the big contractors here run them but trade them out before they hit 10K on the meter. The reason is the parts are so expensive that you can't afford to rebuild them and the resale is so bad you just as well buy another. The statements about being cheap does apply to them in a few ways, particularly the cab and controls.

The 450 line in all the rest is basically an added weight to the back of the counterweight. Power may be a little different but it is always just a tweek on the fuel pump setting and slap a different decal on the side of the machine. Even the Komatsu 450 machines that I've seen are that way.

Why don't I like Volvo? Because I have run them. Their wheel loaders are nice I can admit that, but they feel cheap inside. Their rock trucks... are top notch. Their hoes?... cheap.

Cheap and plastic... As the structure is made of steel, I assume we're talking about cabins here. All excavator brands use plastic panels today, at least all on the European market. What do you got over there? Wood? Volvo and Komatsu cabins are among the most quiet and noise free on the market today.
I don't know if we get the "cheap and plastic" version of Cat here in Scandinavia, becaus Volvo and Cat is almost the same when it comes to price, here.
About your yellow Hitachi, that's called Deere... Good Japanes quality.