How to dig a ditch fast?

My first post so bear with me!
I work for an oil and gas pipeline company and have been digging for about 5 years. Not to long but long enough to get a handel on it. We run Deere 230 and 270 and Cat 325.
While the 270 has more digging power then the 230 the 230 cycle times are noticably quicker and seems to be a much more controlable excavator. The only good thing about the cat is the quick attach bucket lol.

So u asked about how to dig fast so this is what i have observed buy watching some pretty damn shiny operators and a few things i have figured out:

1. How long is ur Set? While u have the rech to dig say a 15' set before repositioning thats doesent mean u should! As mentioned earlier ur hydraulics have a sweet spot where u have max power and reaching out to max extention to start ur set isnt it! Iusually make my sets about 3/4 the length of my tracks therabouts and have noticed this allows for quicker digging.

2. Dig from the top down not the other way around. Take light cuts along the length of ur set. Say about maybe 1' at a time or so. This will vary of course depending on the size of ur hoe. Typicaly in the 230 it takes me 4-5 cuts to get 6' depth. Also dig with ur bucket more or less parallel to ditch bottom as others have said curling at the end to fill bucket to max capacity. Filling ur bucket 3/4 full doesent help u to dig faster lol!

3. Put ur dirt more or less right beside where it comes out. This i have found more then anything speeds digging tremendously. The less time spent swinging means more time digging. If ur spoil pile is ending up close to the cab at the end of the set u are doing it wrong.

4. If ur ditch needs to be sloped to stand do it as u go down. If u have to stop digging and spend a bunch of time sloping ur holdin up production.

5. It seems u get the most production when ur engin stays at a constant hum. if ur jerky and ur engin is revin then bogging out production will be down.

6. I dont know if this makes u dig faster or not but for the love of god dont bottom out ur bucket and stick rams Every Single Time u dump ur spoil or extend to start ur next cut!
Its hard as **** on ur machine and makes u look like a complete rookie no matter how nice ur ditch is or how long u been doin it.

Just my 2 cents here and the things i could think of. The variables on how much ditch u can get in a day are neverending but these are the big ones i could think of.

very well made points chazel. thanks. we are working just seven miles south of the border in north dakota right now.

Im in the South West corner. Have u been able to get anything done this summer its pretty much been raining down there non stop all summer?

6.5" in the last 60 days and normal is 3.75"

My boyfriend has a landscaping business and has operated an excavator for years. It is an expert operating different machinery but he has also done it for many years. I think you are selling yourself short, with more experience you will also pick up more speed. It will just take time to learn to be a good operator. He always says that anyone can run a machine, but not everyone can operate one.

I don't know if anyone uses a trencher but this is the fastest way to dig a ditch I have found,I have operated all types of equipment over the years but one of these beats it all.I can do a mile in about 6 hours @ 6' deep and 36" wide.The problem we have is we get to much open ditch and they shut us down. here are some pictures...

my rebuttal to the trencher guy!:

1. i hate trenchers.
2. its an excavator thread not a trencher thread.
3. is that a million dollar trencher? there is a whole different level of economics involved with that kind of money and a trencher.
4. i have to deal with a lot of rocks (not rock). we are in glacial till. trenchers don't seem to do the trick out here where i am at. in other parts of the country i would bet a trencher is amazing.
5. i typically need an eight foot ditch in my part of the world.

Using a trencher does not really contribute to the OP's question. Regardless of the thread, it is common knowledge that a trencher will smoke any type of hoe, in the right conditions. Part of that reason is that the trencher is always employing the right digging technique. The conditions that the OP has pointed out are not ideal for trenchers. Even in your photos you can't see a single rock in that sandy ground. Cobbles would reak havoc on your trencher. I know that that big chain trencher can eat through rock. But small cobbles,, like those in glacial till, would come loose and jam up the works (especially on that bucket wheel trencher) but what's to keep the cobbles from falling out behind the stinger? Furthermore the trenching action would leave the ditch prone to cave-in. I have run a Trencor Jetco bucket wheel trencher that could dig as fast as you could walk. I have also ran big chain trenchors and rock wheels that can dig through solid rock, and pavement. They are impressive but you will have a hard time arguing the efficiency of them in the conditions mentioned above. Either way that's a conversation for the "Other Types of Earthmoving Equipment Thread".

rshackleford said:

my rebuttal to the trencher guy!:

1. i hate trenchers.
2. its an excavator thread not a trencher thread.
3. is that a million dollar trencher? there is a whole different level of economics involved with that kind of money and a trencher.
4. i have to deal with a lot of rocks (not rock). we are in glacial till. trenchers don't seem to do the trick out here where i am at. in other parts of the country i would bet a trencher is amazing.
5. i typically need an eight foot ditch in my part of the world.

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Well I didn't know I would step on your toes with my post and I did not know it was an excavator thread, the way I read it was "How to dig a ditch fast" And thats tough s.... you hate trenchers. I will try to stay out of "your sandbox" and hopfully out of "your part of the world" I cut rock to and we have trenchers that can dig 40' deep and as wide as you want and our biggest cost over five million. Try this mid size rock trencher..... We also dig in rocks like these in Las Vegas. Nuff said :Banghead I'm done

DGODGR said:

Using a trencher does not really contribute to the OP's question. Regardless of the thread, it is common knowledge that a trencher will smoke any type of hoe, in the right conditions. Part of that reason is that the trencher is always employing the right digging technique. The conditions that the OP has pointed out are not ideal for trenchers. Even in your photos you can't see a single rock in that sandy ground. Cobbles would reak havoc on your trencher. I know that that big chain trencher can eat through rock. But small cobbles,, like those in glacial till, would come loose and jam up the works (especially on that bucket wheel trencher) but what's to keep the cobbles from falling out behind the stinger? Furthermore the trenching action would leave the ditch prone to cave-in. I have run a Trencor Jetco bucket wheel trencher that could dig as fast as you could walk. I have also ran big chain trenchors and rock wheels that can dig through solid rock, and pavement. They are impressive but you will have a hard time arguing the efficiency of them in the conditions mentioned above. Either way that's a conversation for the "Other Types of Earthmoving Equipment Thread".

Click to expand...

[But small cobbles,, like those in glacial till, would come loose and jam up the works (especially on that bucket wheel trencher) but what's to keep the cobbles from falling out behind the stinger?]

Well here is you answer, It is not sandy ground but calichi and rock did you not see them in the picture? I could go back and circle them for you but I don't have time. And we use a crumber and drags to keep the "cobbles" from falling in.

wow, give the guy a break fellas, he was just responding. no reason to get your panties all riled up. i have seen those trenchers cut hard rock it is amazing. anyways no trying to fan the fire.

Hey Dusty Roads,
I know I'm a smart aleck, but,...
You should have followed your own signature line.

Better Luck Next Time,
Mitch

My question is, if you put the trencher in reverse does it back fill?

mitch504 said:

Hey Dusty Roads,
I know I'm a smart aleck, but,...
You should have followed your own signature line.

Better Luck Next Time,
Mitch

Click to expand...

You know I thought the same thing right after I started the first reply, when I read the next post and just coud'nt stop. After 12 hrs at work dealing with BLM, PE's dust control crew etc..Needed to let of some steam. :drinkup

we own a Vermeer 555 which for frost free installation is admittedly too small.

the 555 is not enough machine to handle rocks. i would guess you could put a rock chain on it and do just fine cutting rock at three feet depth but for cobbles at eight feet it just goes ka-chunk!

when talking about trenchers of this size there is a huge difference between rock and rocks.

btw--while i jumped all over your first trencher post it was mostly sarcasm, i do understand that trenchers have their place.

mitch504 said:

Hey Dusty Roads,
I know I'm a smart aleck, but,...
You should have followed your own signature line.

Better Luck Next Time,
Mitch

Click to expand...

Now THAT is absolutely perfect, mimics my reaction to a "T".

Folks, this thread is 6 pages long. Often times here at the forums alternate ideas get tossed in as suggestions. If you aren't interested, then just ignore them. There's no reason to hash out which is better here on the Board, each individual will have to make their own choice.

Dusty Roads said:

[But small cobbles,, like those in glacial till, would come loose and jam up the works (especially on that bucket wheel trencher) but what's to keep the cobbles from falling out behind the stinger?]

Well here is you answer, It is not sandy ground but calichi and rock did you not see them in the picture? I could go back and circle them for you but I don't have time. And we use a crumber and drags to keep the "cobbles" from falling in.

Click to expand...

I have a few comments that I would like to present but I don't want my comments to be percieved as argumentative. In my last post I made comments based on my own personal experiences (regarding trenchers), and I felt I was offering something to both the previous posters (acknowledging what, IMO, were good points offered by them respectively, and attempting to difuse the situation some). As I read the posts, submitted after mine, it appears as though some may have found my post to be offensive to Dusty Roads. That was not my intention. Furthermore, if the comment made by Mitch, and reinterated by Alan, are directed towards me than I am offended. I don't feel as though I did anything deserving of name calling.
In this one I would like to offer questions, clarify some of my previous comments, and maybe save a little face. Hopefully I can learn something.
I don't have experience with the the big trenchers that you have in your photos (Dusty Roads). I would assume that they could handle rocks much easier than the trenchers I have experience with (< 70,000#). IMO chain trenchers can handle cobbles better than wheel trenchers. Do you not find it to be true that when rocks are held in clay type material (such as the caliche you mentioned) that it is easier to get the rocks to stay in place and thus allow the chain to cut through them? BTW one of the benefits of the trencher is the fine material you put up along the side of the ditch. I do see some chunks in the photo but I find it hard to tell that they are rocks (at first glance) when they are covered with caliche. In my mind the trouble for a trencher would come with sandy cobbles (cobbles in a more sandy than clay soil). IMO the steady crowding force and the continual movement of the digging mechanism (be it chain or wheel) will leave the walls prone to cave in. Is that your experience too?
Lastly, you mentioned a crumbing shoe to pick up what falls behind the stinger. I am familiar with crumbing shoes but I considered that to be part of the stinger. I have seen cobbles, in between the shoe and the digging mechanism (again, insert chain or wheel here), bind up against the side of the trench causing dirt and rock to fall out behind the crumbing shoe. Has this happened to you, and if so what have you done about it?

DGODGR,
My post was in no way directed at you, you just had a different thought, you didn't say Dusty shouldn't post his.

mitch504 said:

DGODGR,
My post was in no way directed at you, you just had a different thought, you didn't say Dusty shouldn't post his.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. I have found that it's easy to get the wrong message when reading posts on this type of forum. I'll endevor to keep that in mind when reading and replying.
I don't want to hi-jack this thread but I would like to have a conversation about trenchors, including the questions in my last post. Maybe I will start another thread, or if someone wants to reply by doing the same, feel free.