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D6R v/s 750J

dust eater

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
70
Location
illinios
I am currently running a d-6r with an oversized blade and the landfill package on 3 to 1 or steeper slopes all day in both sand and clay. It doesn't matter if I'm going perpendicular or parallel to the slope the machine just hangs on it! The machine has narrow gauge tracks but only about 2000 hours on them. I was a little leary of going over the edge when we first started the job because of the additional weight of the landfill package I felt we should be running a wide track, not so much any more. I have always been a Cat man but even more so now.
 

RKO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
181
Location
NE.
I am currently running a d-6r with an oversized blade and the landfill package on 3 to 1 or steeper slopes all day in both sand and clay. It doesn't matter if I'm going perpendicular or parallel to the slope the machine just hangs on it! The machine has narrow gauge tracks but only about 2000 hours on them. I was a little leary of going over the edge when we first started the job because of the additional weight of the landfill package I felt we should be running a wide track, not so much any more. I have always been a Cat man but even more so now.

I own both D6R Cat and 750C Deere. Both are equip the same, and the 750 will work were the D6 will not. I know the 750 is smaller and will not push as much as the D6 but the 750 will hang on to a slope were the D6 will slide or worse yet I have had the upper track off the ground on the D6. I have had the 750 on a lot steeper grade than 3 to 1 and never had a problem with it.
Each machine has it place but the D6 place is not on a steep slope, that is were the 750 shines.
 

YELLOMTLMILITIA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
127
Location
oklahoma
there is more than one way to skin a CAT, and thier is more than one way to work a slope. you dont always have to work parallel with the toe unless maybe you are finishing slopes along a highway construction project. The point is for about 95% of the normal daily tasks of these dozers a D6R will shamefully outperfrom a 750.
 

tommy1984

Active Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
27
Location
ky
I dont much care about production and what will bush more dirt in a strait line. I just need something to work steep ground and bust rock out of the road that a deere 650 wouldent even shake. It can come out in slabs for all I care I just want to get that sand stone out of my road. I think im sold on the 750j, I gave it a test run on the lot and the joy stick steering is just easyer for me to use than the cat steering. With the 750 being almost 14k lbs heaver than the 650 do you think it can bust sand stone out will the front end just lift and slide over it?
 

YELLOMTLMILITIA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
127
Location
oklahoma
I will bet money it will rip that rock up!! you may have to rip it only a centimeter at a time and you might have to make 5 million passes and you might have to buy 10k ripper tips but I know with out a doubt in my heart she will do the job.....................eventually!! lol
 

sultan

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
298
Location
Ontario, Canada
I dont much care about production and what will bush more dirt in a strait line. I just need something to work steep ground and bust rock out of the road that a deere 650 wouldent even shake. It can come out in slabs for all I care I just want to get that sand stone out of my road. I think im sold on the 750j, I gave it a test run on the lot and the joy stick steering is just easyer for me to use than the cat steering. With the 750 being almost 14k lbs heaver than the 650 do you think it can bust sand stone out will the front end just lift and slide over it?

You don't care about production? Don't kid yourself. The 750 would take forever ripping the rock and the even the little extra power of the D6R coupled with a torque converter would make it rip twice as fast with less fuel to do the job. Ripping rock is rather rough on a hydrostatic transmission, and the torque is somewhat limited compared to a powershift.
 

dieseldave

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
337
Location
egg harbor NJ
I own both D6R Cat and 750C Deere. Both are equip the same, and the 750 will work were the D6 will not. I know the 750 is smaller and will not push as much as the D6 but the 750 will hang on to a slope were the D6 will slide or worse yet I have had the upper track off the ground on the D6. I have had the 750 on a lot steeper grade than 3 to 1 and never had a problem with it.
Each machine has it place but the D6 place is not on a steep slope, that is were the 750 shines.

RKO, I agree with you 100%. I worked the slope in the pic with that D6R and it was real light on the upper track, to the point of being off the ground on more than one occasion. I "borrowed" an 850C from another operator one day and worked the same slope,and it hung on there just fine, no problem at all.

Yellowmilitia, I agree with you that there is more than one way to approach a situation, but overall I'd still rather have a JD than a hi track Cat in steep terrain. It's not that I'm anti-Cat- I collect the older ones and appreciate their quality and engineering- I just like a Deere for slopes.

Tommy, I think you would have been happy with either machine, but I'm glad you decided to go with the Deere.
 

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YELLOMTLMILITIA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
127
Location
oklahoma
You don't care about production? Don't kid yourself. The 750 would take forever ripping the rock and the even the little extra power of the D6R coupled with a torque converter would make it rip twice as fast with less fuel to do the job. Ripping rock is rather rough on a hydrostatic transmission, and the torque is somewhat limited compared to a powershift.

They claim the torque converter and powershift only has an advantage right at stall. I dunno??? was pushing up material one day at a sand pit with a D6N and a 750j side by side. they were pretty comparable in the cut but when we started to climb the 750 seemed to lose a little steam.
 

sultan

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
298
Location
Ontario, Canada
They claim the torque converter and powershift only has an advantage right at stall. I dunno??? was pushing up material one day at a sand pit with a D6N and a 750j side by side. they were pretty comparable in the cut but when we started to climb the 750 seemed to lose a little steam.

I don't have enough experience on dozers to be certain, but hydro machines seem to have a slight advantage at medium speed earthmoving, but seem to act up and bog down in very slow heavy pushing. I'd imagine though that ripping rock would be hard on the pumps and hydraulic motors because of all the jerks and stop/starts as the rock cracks and gets ripped. I'd expect it to cause premature wear and failure of the hydraulic pumps and moors. For a finish dozing, I'd think hydrostatic drive would be fine because it is generally smooth and you normally aren't pushing the dozer to its stall limits. Once again, I am not a dozer operator, and so these are just my hypotheses and I may be wrong.

The D6M that I tried for a bit seemed fine on slopes, but I can imagine that a low drive tractor would have a somewhat lower centre of gravity.

Get whatever you want tommy1984, but I can't see why production won't matter unless the job is too small to justify buying a recent dozer in the first place. Also, I wouldn't dismiss the D6R for its steering, I'd suggest you give it another try and see if you can get used to it. I do know for a fact that every bit of force is very important when land clearing and breaking rock, so keep that in mind. Still, if your slopes are so steep that a high drive machine may tip, then I guess it may be safer to go with a low drive unit.

P.S. The $50k price sounds oddly low for a D6R or a 750J. Be extra thorough when inspecting the machines.
 

Deeretime

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
344
Location
High River Alberta
Occupation
superintendent
Dont forget that CAT is more expencive to run than any one else's dozer the high drive has more u/c to replace not to mention some cat parts are priced high if ur not to concerned about production i would bet on the 750 i have a 850c with 9000hrs and it is still solid machine.

Is the 6R realy compareable to a 750? I always thought that the 6R was about the same as an 850
 

tommy1984

Active Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
27
Location
ky
I think a 6R and a 850J are about the same weight. But the dealer I found these extremely good deals with doesn't have a 850 right now. To be honest maybe I shouldn't have made such a bid deal of the sand stone. It will only be an issue about 15% of the time.
 

ih100

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
731
Location
Peterborough UK
When the high drives came out, Cat issued releases that explained how the major components sat lower than on the previous machines, and showed the c of g was very slightly lower. It's been covered here before, but most people think a side-slope is steeper than it actually is, measured by the backside in the operator's seat. I've seen a 6H and 6N work along a measured 45 degree (1 in 1) without the top track coming off the ground.
 

SE-Ia Cowman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
240
Location
Iowa
I never saw wether the deere had a 6 way blade or not if it does it wont be good at all for rock and the lgp would be even worse for rock. A 13' blade is standerd on 750 lgp machines with 6 way that is a lot of stress on tilt and lift cylinders. I am not telling you to buy a cat but I would advise you to buy a machine that is set up the way you need it. I still think the price is a lot low on both machines there are a lot of shady fly by night dealers out there so if you are not mechanicaly inclined or new to heavy equiptment I would hire a third party mechanic to look very closely at any machine you are goeing to purchase. I would also get a 30 parts and labor warranty just to keep the dealer honest. I have used this in the past as a deal breaker when dickering on machines.
 

SE-Ia Cowman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
240
Location
Iowa
One more thing I was just looking back and you started a post back in november of last year that was very similar to this one and everyone advised you to stay away from lgp machines Looks like everyone is still giveing the same advise and you keep askeing the same question.
 

tommy1984

Active Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
27
Location
ky
Yeah I had forgot all about that post. And I am now getting ready to buy so I started a new on. I am going to stay away from LPG thanks.
 

ih100

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
731
Location
Peterborough UK
Most people dont mention if they were on a standard track, XL or XW or LGP when talking about slope work

Standard on the "H", XL on the "N". Plus a mixture of standard, wide or long on various other machines. I've lost count a bit.

A good lot of people don't know what angle they've actually been on. One guy I know claimed to have driven along an almost vertical slope - someone who'd been with him said it was nearer 30degrees.

Slopes, or batters as we call them here, were my bread and butter for a long time. I've had both tracks sit rock solid when battering clay at 40 degrees, then slid sideways from top to bottom pushing topsoil over the same bank. I've seen operators lift the top track at 35 degrees by going too fast or hitting rocks or buried concrete. It's not so much the angle as how you deal with it.

My Dad worked on the land, and I remember seeing him drive a TD18 from one field to the next along the bank of a drainage ditch so's to not damage the road or load onto a trailer. In this part of England the ditches are generally dug as a narrow "Vee" with banks as steep as 50 degrees. Our farmers are too mean to give up more land than necessary. This particular ditch wasn't quite that steep, and I only saw him do it the once.
 

Deereman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
440
Location
Georgia
It sounds like you need a good 750J LT with a semi- U (or a 6-way)and ripper. And depending on how much clearing a root rake. And to me any kind of weight on there like a ripper or winch makes the dozer feel better. But would bother if you didn't either.
What % of the time would you be doing what tommy? And i will edit your dozer. And have you run both blade styles??
 

tommy1984

Active Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
27
Location
ky
Hey deere man. I would say I would be pushing trees over with the excavator so none of that with the dozer. Id be piling the trees and brush up maybe 10% of the time, making large flats maybe 25% of the time, Building/maintenance on roads about 40% and the other 20% will be spread between all other areas of work around the farm. For got to mention that we are going to build a pond or 2 of 1/2 acre or maybe a little larger. I have only ran a 6-way blade dozer but in my limited experience it seems like you can keep a road more lever with them because if it starts leaning one way you can adjust???
 

br1474

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
106
Location
Georgia
Occupation
SVC. TECH
you will have to judge,customer service will sell, don't let Catitis get to you there.
go to cat and ask if they will give you the information on how to calibrate the transmission after changing a speed sensor. do it with a cold call no information about yourself, Ask cat about how many hours before it will need a final drive rebuild, or a pump find out the price on several parts then compare them to deere. They only build them for so many hours not for as long as they can get out of them. yes i am a deere man i work for deere and major componets are something we do not have an issue with. Only problem you might see with the 750j is injectors and that depends on the fuel quaility used only use co-op if available.
 
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