Cat 627/657 Pic Post

alan627b said:

I'll bet the boss had some interesting comments that afternoon....

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Ha HA I think it would be in Italian though, hey Luigi it's Mario I got ah stuck, do we just bury it? Like all our sewer and water screw ups?

You know your ass is buried when you dont need to step down to get out of the cab =)

(boarderline spam post, getting my post count up)

Hey Mario, give me a hand UP out of this thing....
Hey Boss, the inspector was wrong...their is a bottom to this muck! Guess how far down it was?!

Good pics. See one 657G scraper there. Our 657G is a lemon. The other 2 657E's we have run circles around the 657G. CAT seem to cheapen up everything about the 657G. Rides rough, low power, tinware is sad. etc.. We have been disappointed with the 657G along with our 2 16M Motor Graders!

245dlc said:

Ha HA I think it would be in Italian though, hey Luigi it's Mario I got ah stuck, do we just bury it? Like all our sewer and water screw ups?

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Sounds like you've worked for the dirt mafia before 245dlc! Or are we getting a reputation? hahaha!

Got some more pictures from my phone.

More!

hiballer627 said:

Sounds like you've worked for the dirt mafia before 245dlc! Or are we getting a reputation? hahaha!

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Lol no I knew better or did I as I worked for Raywalt? lol The rep was spread pretty far when I first moved to Edmonton in 2001.

Nice Pics. Hopefully the 657G runs better then ours. What a disappointment. The 2 657E run circle around the 657G. The operators hate to run it. Low power, rough riding compared to the 657E's. Lots of CAT product improvements. CAT replaced the majority of the tinware, grill hood, A/C condenser in front of the cab. CAT really cheapened up the tinware, wiring harness.
Nice to notice the guards above the push block, sure save the front radiator.
Need to add turbo precleaner to the rear engine. Saves on outer air filters.
Also adding auto lube systems helped out a lot too!

Kman9090 said:

You must be retarded if you dont think you can hook 3 scrapers up!!!

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You can hook as many twin scrapers together as there are on a given site. But the dirt boss who allows more than two to hook together at a time is the real retard.

The machines are designed and built to work in pairs. The machines’ components are not designed for the stresses imposed by hooking more than two together. The risk of the center units getting smashed aside, you wouldn’t wantonly abuse a machine as expensive as a twin engine scraper that will last for decades if properly taken care of.

There are a lot of dirt foremen out there who aren’t actually qualified for the position. Get around guys who know what they’re doing and you won’t see more than two scrapers push-pulling together. All the dirt bosses who I’ve worked for and worked with make it clear to the operators that push-pulling is a two-machine affair. If more than two machines hook up, there are three scraper hands walking from the cut to their rigs to drive home, permanently.

Great Pics, Burnout. I have a question for you, I heard that Sureway has like 50 Plus of the 657 Scrapers ?? Just wonder if that was true ??

Mass-X, I generally agree with you, but we did an entire job in wet sand where 3 was the magic number. 1 couldn't load itself, 2 would load but both units would jump and buck like crazy. Hooking 3 together made loading smooth a silk, much less stress for all involved. Mine had no tail hook, so I was tail end Charlie all the time, and man could I get a load on.
In most circumstances, though, I'd totally agree with you. And put a few guys who aren't very good or don't work well with each other together, and it's a recipe for disaster.

Alan

Mass-X said:

You can hook as many twin scrapers together as there are on a given site. But the dirt boss who allows more than two to hook together at a time is the real retard.

The machines are designed and built to work in pairs. The machines’ components are not designed for the stresses imposed by hooking more than two together. The risk of the center units getting smashed aside, you wouldn’t wantonly abuse a machine as expensive as a twin engine scraper that will last for decades if properly taken care of.

There are a lot of dirt foremen out there who aren’t actually qualified for the position. Get around guys who know what they’re doing and you won’t see more than two scrapers push-pulling together. All the dirt bosses who I’ve worked for and worked with make it clear to the operators that push-pulling is a two-machine affair. If more than two machines hook up, there are three scraper hands walking from the cut to their rigs to drive home, permanently.

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Ok they are also designed to carry a specific load, why add sideboards? Every contractor pushes a machine to it's limits to make money. Being a Foreman you have to do that as well. Why do contractors put sidewalls on a 740 and turn them into a 50ton truck when they weren't designed for it? Do it all the time and some of the biggest companies do it. Doesn't matter they are blowing out the shocks or eating up pumps they keep doing it. Sometimes we have trucks hit the fill and can't dump unless they are pointed uphill. If your a foreman and you have one scraper go down and now have 3 scrapers running around your gonna tell me that your gonna let that scraper run as a single. Burning up time cuz it takes longer to get loaded and not near as big loads, tires because they will spin more as well as fuel. Or do you have the operator go park it and go home. Then your last option is to tell him to go hook them up triple. If you don't choose option number 3 then seriously doubt most companies are gonna keep you around as a foreman or ever let you be one. I will say you do need qualified operators to run triples expecially the middle man. Typically running triples you run and get the first 2 loaded and then the front one un hooks and takes off since you can rip the bail off the back one easily with 2 in front. So tell me what is that hurting?

Forgot to mention we run tripples for about 6 months straight and never had a problem. Went through cutting edges a little faster thats about it.

A few more 57s

Nice to see you busy hiballer627, apparently Burnout isn't hogging all the work!

How many scrapers are you guys running now?

I'm told the scraper fleet is around 40 right now plus a few parts machines. The bosses are buying more every week it seems like. Our estimators are keeping everything good and busy this year though, which is a nice change from last year. Sureway is a big outfit, but we'll give them a run for their money one day!! hahaha

diggerdave1958 said:

Great Pics, Burnout. I have a question for you, I heard that Sureway has like 50 Plus of the 657 Scrapers ?? Just wonder if that was true ??

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They have a few more than that!

I’ll probably regret debating the oracle of earthmoving, but here goes.

Kman9090: Ok they are also designed to carry a specific load, why add sideboards?

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The decision to install sideboards on a scraper is made in an office. The decision to push-pull in trios is made in the cut. We can discuss sideboards, but that doesn’t relate to push-pulling. Make a separate post and we’ll talk sideboards. This is about push-pulling, and I’m talking about taking care of the machines you’re working with in the cut. Sideboards or not, there is no financial justification to push-pulling in threes.

Kman9090: Every contractor pushes a machine to it's limits to make money. Being a Foreman you have to do that as well.

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I agree. But there is a huge difference between pushing equipment to maximize return via production, and putting equipment in a situation that will lead to extensive damage. Push the machines as hard as conditions safely allow but that’s not an excuse for risking damage and decreasing component life.

Kman9090: If your a foreman and you have one scraper go down and now have 3 scrapers running around your gonna tell me that your gonna let that scraper run as a single. Burning up time cuz it takes longer to get loaded and not near as big loads, tires because they will spin more as well as fuel. Or do you have the operator go park it and go home. Then your last option is to tell him to go hook them up triple. If you don't choose option number 3 then seriously doubt most companies are gonna keep you around as a foreman or ever let you be one.

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Watch a big scraper spread next time you see one. When one twin goes down, in the time it takes for the operator to get shuttled to the spare and get back out to the spread the machine running solo gets pushed by the utility cat. I can’t remember the last time that change in operations needed anything more than the solo scraper hand to get on the radio and tell the utility-cat hand he was going to need a push for the next few rounds. No hooking up in trios. No self-loading. Dive into the cut and let the utility dozer catch you and run push-cat until your partner’s back.

Kman9090: I will say you do need qualified operators to run triples expecially the middle man. Typically running triples you run and get the first 2 loaded and then the front one un hooks and takes off since you can rip the bail off the back one easily with 2 in front. So tell me what is that hurting?

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The hitch, gooseneck, bail, frog and floor. If you try to have the first machine pull the second while the third pushes, the least of your worries is a broken bail. It’s the damage caused to the center machine when some type of unknown condition causes the three machines to get out of sync and the rear shoves the middle machine into the front scraper off center. Do it long enough and you will cause extensive damage to the center machine. If you push-pull in threes it’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.

The decreased life of hitches/goosenecks/bails/floors, etc. causing increased maintenance intervals and abbreviated component life far outweighs whatever temporary gains in production you would get by having 3 scrapers push-pull together.

Kman9090: Forgot to mention we run tripples for about 6 months straight and never had a problem.

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So for 6 consecutive months the project only had 3 scrapers on it or the 4th was down that long?

Yup the other scraper was on another job doing something and didn't need two there. As for big scraper spreads when don't see much of 627's around here any more. Even the company i worked for sold theirs. As for a push cat being around didn't have one of those either. Worked on alot of jobs were the biggest dozer was a D6N. If there was a D8 around to push the other scraper go for it but even if there was the foreman wasn't gonna have him stop what he was doing to go push one scraper around. most the time he would say go hoom up with the other guys. Also seen instance where instead of having 3 scrapers hooked up it was 2 dozers and a scraper. One dozer with a bail on back pulling, one dozer behind pushing.

I can't see where it's harder on the hitches and pans? I mean a D10 behind a 627 is gonna cause way more force and power then 3 scrapers hooked together. Not to mention some companys that run a D11 or 2 D10's behind a 651?