Cold Start Injection

littleplows · Feb 17, 2010

I have a couple of questions for you guys that are smarter than I with these things.

I am looking for a cold start injection system for a diesel engine does anyone know where I can find one used.

Is there a propane injection cold start aid or is it just starting fluid/ether.

I would like to use propane instead of starting fluid because of starting fluid taking away all the lube in the cyls and poss contact with the injectors. I already have a block heater installed and it works ok but when it gets to freezing temps around here it doesn't seem to be enough. What I have been using is some fluid film injected after the filter and it works great to start the machine but the cans of fluid film don't like to work when its that cold either.

You guys who haven't tried it would be amazed on how easy a hard starting diesel starts when you use Fluid Film instead or of or in combination with starting fluid.

Ace · Feb 17, 2010

What is this on? My old deere backhoe is pretty cold natured and it helps to turn the steering wheel back and forth when cranking. I dont know the technical reasons but it does something to destroke the hyd pump and lessens the load on the starter so it cranks faster. I know alot of older deere tractors with the front mounted hyd pump are the same way. Also are you sure your block heater is working? Follow the cord back to the block and see if it feels warm around it. How long are you leaving it plugged in for? From my past experiences they really need to be plugged in overnight, just 2 or 3 hours isnt enough

littleplows · Feb 17, 2010

Its on a Case 1845 skid steer and I leave it plugged in when I'm not using it. I use it everyday but sunday. The heater is working I can feel the block getting warm. It gives me problems any time it gets under 50 degrees. Its even a hard start when its warm out. Once it starts though it works just fine.

Willis Bushogin · Feb 17, 2010

Case 1845

littleplows said:
Its on a Case 1845 skid steer and I leave it plugged in when I'm not using it. I use it everyday but sunday. The heater is working I can feel the block getting warm. It gives me problems any time it gets under 50 degrees. Its even a hard start when its warm out. Once it starts though it works just fine.

I just sold my Case 1840, it had a lot of hrs on it, but in 20 degree wx, it would turn over about 4 times and fire right off
I have several thoughts
I wonder if you are losing fuel, when it is cut off. Do you have a fuel leak anywhere? If you are sucking air, it could be losing its prime

I cant remember if mine had glow plugs, but if your machine has glow plugs and they arent working, this will do it

I wouldnt add any propane system, but if you feel you need too, check out Ebay, I saw one listed a while back. You can get you Napa auto parts store to order this for you. Beware, this can be worst than starter fluid, if you dont use it correctly. My JD310B, came with this system on it, but it never worked, while I had the machine and it was hard to start in real cold wx, I usually had to use starter fluid, or the starter would lock up

Linkbelt HC · Feb 17, 2010

littleplows said:
Its on a Case 1845 skid steer and I leave it plugged in when I'm not using it. I use it everyday but sunday. The heater is working I can feel the block getting warm. It gives me problems any time it gets under 50 degrees. Its even a hard start when its warm out. Once it starts though it works just fine.

How is your battery for holding a charge? What SAE of oil are you using? My company has a JD 322 CTL equipped with glow plugs and a block heater. At -30 celsius it will fire up. However, when the temperature begins to fall we plug in a battery trickle charger (this keeps the battery at max amperage). Your cold start problems could be as simple as changing fuel grades or filters or just replacing your battery. Keep us posted!

Ace · Feb 18, 2010

If its giving you trouble when it warm out then I would say theres something else wrong you need to address instead of putting a cold start system on it. What motor is in it? I'm not real familiar with case skid steers but some engines have glow plugs, others have grid heaters in the intake, and some dont have either. I am kinda leaning toward maybe a fuel issue? If your losing prime and sucking air somewhere you would have similar symptoms to what you described. Check for any leaks on lines or around the filter base, it doesnt take very much to get air into the system

Speedpup · Feb 18, 2010

http://www.quickstart-ether.com/ I think is one if you do need it. I have used them for 30 years

Komatsu 150 · Feb 19, 2010

Speedpup said:
http://www.quickstart-ether.com/ I think is one if you do need it. I have used them for 30 years

I believe that's the same system Cat installed on many machines. Works very well and positively limits the amount of ether per shot, much better than a can which can really be overdone. It's fail safe in the sense that it sprays ether when you take your finger off the button not when you push the button, so if it should stick it will not keep spraying.

littleplows · Apr 8, 2010

Well time for another update... Put new injectors in and checked for any other leaks still not firing right when its cold. I got frustrated and put an injector for wd40 on it through the air intake. I took a quick shot refillable air canister filled it with wd40 and some fluid film pressureised it and now I just tap it once before I start it and she fires right up. That will work for now till I get a chance to fix it right. I get about 60 - 80 shots out of it and had all the parts to convert it right here at the shop.

liebherr1160 · Apr 8, 2010

Worst comes to worst ..a tissue and a lighter..light the tissue ..roll it over ..throw the lit tissue in the intake... fire away..she'll clear it ..Cigarettes are just to expensive to do that anymore:drinkup

Sounds to me though that theres more to it than just cold ..Distributor pump injection ? could be timing.. plugged airfilter,fuel filter,

Does it smoke alot on the start up ..how long before it clears ?
using alot of oil?
Fuel in the oil?

littleplows · Apr 9, 2010

yea she smokes for bout 5 min after startup

joispoi · Apr 9, 2010

How many hours are on the engine? Low compression?

cdm123 · Apr 13, 2010

the problem is the hydralic oil. as you try turning engine over you are also turning all the pumps. if you can stick a few of the 300watt magnetic electric heaters on the resivor and keep it out of the wind it will make a huge diferance. at least it used to on my old 825 bobcat it also cut out about a half hour warming it up @ -40

snohed · May 29, 2010

Prime

I had the same prob. mine was losing prime. I found the fuel leak and it seems to be working better now. Find the leak it may be small.

GaryHoff · Jun 14, 2010

Make sure you battery has enough cca. typically the more the better. you may also want to just try a oil pan heater. (warm engine oil makes a huge differance in cold weather). Also a hotter block heater or a circulating block heater may be better. (assuming you are near power). If not a proheat or espar work great ( not as economical but very efficient)

Cowboy Billy · Jun 16, 2010

While it could be air getting in the injection lines (I have a case W-14 wheel loader I have to pump the fuel pump manually the first time I start it in a day to get it to start) it is more likely low compression.

A diesel is compression ignition. When the fuel/air compresses on the compression stoke it gets hot and ignites fuel/air mixture. If you don't have enough compression it will not get hot enough to ignite. A good starter/battery and cables will help with the problem as it will crank faster giving it less time for the compression to leak off.

Loss of compression is usually either valves or bad rings. Take the oil fill cap off while running if there is a lot of air coming out of it it is most likely the rings. Valves could be either bad seats or valve lash being too tight holding the valve open.

Billy

dumptrucker · Jun 16, 2010

I had a 1845 that did the same thing. Mine had a perkins diesel in it and they are notorious for starting hard when cold. I put an engine oil pan heater on it and also one in the hydraulic tank. Usually the oil pan heater worked until it got to 10 degrees or colder then had to plug in the hydraulic tank heater, then no problem.

Cold Start Injection

littleplows

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Ace

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littleplows

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Willis Bushogin

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Linkbelt HC

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Ace

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Speedpup

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Komatsu 150

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littleplows

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liebherr1160

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littleplows

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joispoi

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cdm123

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snohed

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GaryHoff

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Cowboy Billy

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dumptrucker

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