The most entertaining "school me"thread... My 1st piece of H.E. Two 80ton Hoes

douglasco said:

Not as ballsy as posting on this forum hoping for some answers
:Banghead

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I think Tbaytrucker, Cascadescaper, JimBruce, and MKTEF all gave serious, reasonable answers to your questions. In my opinion you would do well to consider their advice. Sorry if I left anyone out.

Most member on this forum have become skeptics. It's a necessity of the internet.

Now to my first point, you ever wonder why the mob cost was almost half again as much as the rental for the month? And that was only form your local dealer to your property. 80 ton machines aren't what you would call easy to move. The bucket, stick and counter weight come off, and that still leaves you needing a really big lowboy. Just pulling the bucket and stick are gonna be hard with out a mechanic's truck. Pulling the tracks off is going to be impossible with out some really big tools. If i remember correctly a 385 has bolts/nuts the size of my fist holding the tracks frames to the swivel.

So now comes the question i've really been wanting to ask. Why didn't you just by 1 much nicer 45 ton machine? A 45 tonner with a big breaker would bust up an rock into much more manageable pieces. At worst save a little money to pay a blaster to make a vist. If there is a enough room for an 800 sized machine to move the boulder around, 5-1 there isn't anything a little boom-boom would hurt.

And lastly, i find it really hard to believe somebody with no experience was gonna rent out a 385 for a month. I find it even more unreasonable that he proceeded to buy an 800 sized machine, and then started asking questions, let alone 2. ointhead

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but i'm skeptical

Ok so post up some pics and what exactly you bought and put all the skeptical peoples minds at rest...

douglasco said:

Not as ballsy as posting on this forum hoping for some answers
:Banghead

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I think it's kind of funny that you ask questions and seemingly get frustrated by no answers, yet, others are asking questions of you, and you are providing no answers to them and seem to think that's fine. Perhaps if you answered some of the questions being asked of you, you'd find others more willing to cooperate.

Would this be an akward time to post that I bought a 4250-W to pull some stumps and level some pasture?:beatsme

You said in the title that its your first piece of heavy equipment, you bought two 80 ton excavators as your introduction to heavy equipment?

You said you got the 2 for less than $28k... that seems amazingly cheap. But I guess they are probably too old, big and hard to move to get many people interested. If I could get that much excavator for that sort of money I would be tempted just so I could come on here and say so

Such big machines are going to be expensive to run even before you have to spring for repairs. Just out of interest I had a look at the specs for the cat 385 and it uses 60-70 L of fuel and hour and holds 1000 L of hydraulic oil. I couldn't afford it even if they never broke down!

Good luck with them... your obviously the sort of guy who likes to jump in with both feet.

He said that he got them for less then $28k?

That would be less then scrap price.

EGS said:

He said that he got them for less then $28k?

That would be less then scrap price.

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i could of bought a good running CAT 245 with better then 50% UC well maintained by a mine up north for "a case of beer"... its still there... trucking that to the okanagan from the NWT would cost tens of thousands of dollars... even at $300 per ton x45 ton after trucking and cutting it into little weeee pieces a man can carry its not worth it... unless you have a use for an old machine its either a boat anchor (i know a few TD25's were used as such by vanisle loggers) or a lawn ornament....

come to think of it i know in salmonarm in hunterlines old yard behind jemb diesel there is a EX800? or maybe it was a 1100? sitting on 3-4 trailers... no use for it so its in mothballs... could probably buy it for the hauling cost and a gratuity.

I stripped a rad outta a D8 the other day ($265 worth of copper an brass :drinkup ) the cat is about 45min from vernon and most of it is still there and nobody is interested in hauling the steel away...

Know of a HD10 about 2hr's from vernon complete but with a seized motor and i cant get anyone to haul it away even for free...

gave a old TD18 away (lemme say that one again) I GAVE AWAY A FREE TD18 to kamloops scrap iron last fall and they hummed an hawed about it for a while....

scrap metal is not worth what some think... often the distance to haul exceeds any profit... and when it comes to old equipment it costs money to cut it up.


*end hijack*

lets see some pic's!

Well?

EGS said:

He said that he got them for less then $28k?

That would be less then scrap price.

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Nope. Those prices are perfectly realistic for lucky auction-goers. Last year, I almost bought a 1993 Hitachi EX700 for $25k. It had an ugly counterweight and a dented side panel, but it ran well and had new pumps. I'm glad I didn't get it though because the fuel bills would have killed me when doing lighter work. Right now, I'm just waiting for more funds to have more fun...

sultan said:

Nope. Those prices are perfectly realistic for lucky auction-goers. Last year, I almost bought a 1993 Hitachi EX700 for $25k. It had an ugly counterweight and a dented side panel, but it ran well and had new pumps. I'm glad I didn't get it though because the fuel bills would have killed me when doing lighter work. Right now, I'm just waiting for more funds to have more fun...

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we are talking somewhere south of $19K for an 80 tonner though; 28k for rent plus 10K for mob costs. One would assume he spent less on the 2 machines than the cost to rent the 385.

Sorry guys i've been out of pocket. I'll post lots of pics as soon as i get them mobilized. Yes i do thank everyone for the answers, advice and wisdom. I just like to give everyone a hard time about giving me a hard time because it makes you give me an even a harder time and we all have fun and the forum sponsors get more clicks.

So why does everyone say its such a big deal to seperate the machine from the tracks? Is it just because you have to stabilize the machine with no tracks under it? You have to unbolt them to narrow the track gauge for transport anyways. I'm still working on finding the cheapest mob option.

its a big deal to seperate the tracks from the machine, because it takes a bit more than a 1'' power bar and big pipe to turn those big bolts out, not saying it cant be done, it took 3 of us 2.5 days with a 10 foot breaker bar and a torque multiplyer just to push in the tracks,when i was out west. add days, and thousands of dollars if any of the bolts break off, i know that from experiance

tbaytrucker said:

its a big deal to seperate the tracks from the machine, because it takes a bit more than a 1'' power bar and big pipe to turn those big bolts out, not saying it cant be done, it took 3 of us 2.5 days with a 10 foot breaker bar and a torque multiplyer just to push in the tracks,when i was out west. add days, and thousands of dollars if any of the bolts break off, i know that from experiance

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So basically your saying I should try to transport them without retracting the tracks. But if I'm going to retract them, the hardest part is done, so hauling the tracks seperately is no big deal at that point. Why do you think the bolts broke, you think you could have gotten them off if you used a different technique/tool? What machine was it?

in a perfect world, you could move it with the tracks out, i dont know what your regulations/permitting is like in your neck of the woods. what i was describing what just whats in store to push in the tracks. to completely remove the track frames and tracks is even bigger of a challenge,because you then get to deal with reinstalling the lines for the drive motors (usually steel pipes) which if they have ever been tweaked, you can forget about trying to get them linged up good enough to start the fittings. and trying to line the track frames back up to start the bolts.

what kind of support equipment do you have access to, you will need a big ol loader or forklift just to move the things. i dont know the exact weight, but probably in the range on 10-15 tons a side. when we did it on a older 385 the slides were so tight it took a 988 and a D9N to move them in

Maybe I'm wrong but it would seem hes only worried about getting it apart and transported and I assume will have plenty of time to get it back together later. I'm guessing broken bolts would only be a problem when putting it back together.

I don't have any experience dealing with anything this big but I think breaking this down for transport will make the trucking cheaper but you will need to spend on the disassembly to do it safely. I don't think its realistic to expect to be able to be able to use the machine itself to do it all. I can't see how you are going to be able to get away from needing a reasonable size crane at some point as well as a healthy amount of other workshop equipment like jacks, stands, hydraulic bolt tensioner, porta power, rigging gear, etc.

You haven't let much slip about where these machines are located but I know in australia if you are trying to do this work on someone elses premises they wouldn't let you get away with anything too dodgy. At the end of they day if someone get hurt working in their yard it may come back on them.

so no pictures?

If you're in a real hurry to get those tracks off, there's a fast and relatively easy way to do it. Scoop out a ditch about 5' deep x 6' in length. Park the machine about 20 yards away from the ditch. Park the flatbed about 30 yards away from the ditch. When set up properly you will have 50 yards between the machine and the flatbed and the ditch will be offset 5 yards from the straight line measured between the machine and trailer.

Next, you'll need an assistant, axle grease, some composition B and a pair of old socks. Fill the socks with composition B then coat them with about 1/2" of grease. Climb down into the ditch with your prepared materials. (It may be helpful to conceal the ditch in some fashion). Using a cell phone, call your assistant and ask your assistant to load the machine onto the trailer. As the machine passes the concealed ditch, light the fuse on the composition b and throw it against the tracks.

My advice is to get professional help to shift those machines.
I have no experience with moving equipment of that weight but is sounds like you'll need more than a little toolbox and a front end loader to break the machines into manageable chunks.
I would say that potentially trying to save money by doing it yourself could end up more expensive if you make 'rookie' mistakes, like bending stuff.
At least get some quotes to figure out where you're at. Then you can work out if the money you may potentially save (by doing it yourself) is worth the headache.
There are just some situations where you have to realize your limits and get in pro help.
Also I don't think a professional machine mover is going to tell you how to do the job step by step, that's their livelihood and if they tell every Tom, **** and Harry how to move big machines they are going to do themselves out of a job.
Far as the skeptics go, I can see their point of view but don't get stressed about it. Perhaps once you finally get over your fear that posting pictures of your new 'toys' on the internet is going to make them disappear or attract vandals, you can post a few pictures of yourself in front of the beasts. Actually I don't think you have to worry about anyone stealing them given that they weigh quite a bit. Not like some low life is gonna drive em onto the back of their pick up truck
Anyway your decision, best of luck with getting em home.

BTW just saw that shortened name for Richard attracts stars, be a bit of a problem if your name is like that.