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career decision

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
Hello everyone I am new to the site. I am from east central illinois. I am not sure if I am posting in the right place due to the topics since they are two different forums. I am unemployed, I have been an ironworker, welding fabricator, and a mechanic. I am looking to get into my own business. I know this is probably like beating a dead horse but hear it goes. Dump truck vs. Small excavating business. I have been thinking about buying a single axle dump truck and a skid steer. There are not but maybe a couple single axles running around my area. I wanted to focus on residential drives and getting hooked up with some of the local building contractors for some demo work like driveways, and sidewalks. There are only three excavating companies where I live and they do the big jobs. It is getting harder to find someone to pick up all the small stuff. The guys who do concrete around here dont have their own equipment as far as truck, skid steer. or mini ex. I live in a town of about 3500 people. I dont know that there is enough to keep me busy full time but have been researching the idea. By the way the local quarry says that I could pick up some for work through them.

The other thing I was contemplating is just buying a tandem and trying to run fulltime doing that. I know that a truck is very expensive to maintain and run. I would like to be out on my own I just dont know where to start. i do have experience as far as working on the farm with tractors and have run loads of rock on our grain trucks before. Is there anyone out there that does any of this work, be it trucking or the small excavating that could give me some advice as which way may be better. Some guys are charging from 2.50 to 4.50 a ton for their part of the hauling in the tandems. I think they also charge 60-80 dollars an hour on the big jobs. Sorry if this is in the wrong place but between the trucks and the excavating not sure where to post. Thanks again
 

mikef87

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
433
Location
waltham
Occupation
owner/operator/mechanic/laborer/truck driver
mechanic its a dieing trade, its a tough job, but youll almost always be guarenanteed work.
Hello everyone I am new to the site. I am from east central illinois. I am not sure if I am posting in the right place due to the topics since they are two different forums. I am unemployed, I have been an ironworker, welding fabricator, and a mechanic. I am looking to get into my own business. I know this is probably like beating a dead horse but hear it goes. Dump truck vs. Small excavating business. I have been thinking about buying a single axle dump truck and a skid steer. There are not but maybe a couple single axles running around my area. I wanted to focus on residential drives and getting hooked up with some of the local building contractors for some demo work like driveways, and sidewalks. There are only three excavating companies where I live and they do the big jobs. It is getting harder to find someone to pick up all the small stuff. The guys who do concrete around here dont have their own equipment as far as truck, skid steer. or mini ex. I live in a town of about 3500 people. I dont know that there is enough to keep me busy full time but have been researching the idea. By the way the local quarry says that I could pick up some for work through them.

The other thing I was contemplating is just buying a tandem and trying to run fulltime doing that. I know that a truck is very expensive to maintain and run. I would like to be out on my own I just dont know where to start. i do have experience as far as working on the farm with tractors and have run loads of rock on our grain trucks before. Is there anyone out there that does any of this work, be it trucking or the small excavating that could give me some advice as which way may be better. Some guys are charging from 2.50 to 4.50 a ton for their part of the hauling in the tandems. I think they also charge 60-80 dollars an hour on the big jobs. Sorry if this is in the wrong place but between the trucks and the excavating not sure where to post. Thanks again
 

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
I have to agree with you about work being there for a mechanic but I have just gotten burned out on it. It has gotten to where I want to enjoy when I am working on something and its just not there. I am about to restore a 66 el camino for myself and I want it to be a good time when I am working on it. Its hard to work on someone else's stuff all day and then try to work on your own stuff. The last thing I want to look at when I get done for the day is the stuff that I need fixed for myself.
 

Red Bank

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
323
Location
North Carolina
You really just need to look at the work that is available, which it sounds like you have been checking around. Me, personally, I am the mechanic for a utility contractor that works Mon-Thurs, on Fridays I run my own tandem dump truck hauling for mostly homeowners. I am into my third year with the dump truck and although I don't write myself a check out of the business, it has been worth the effort, you learn to love customers that pay cash! I have found a quarry that is cheaper on rock than the quarry that is 5 miles from my house. No one else wants to drive up there to buy the cheaper rock. This has been my bread and butter for three years. I get the rock and deliver it to the customers for what just the rock from the other quarry is. And I am making out pretty good. I like driving for myself on Fridays, it is a break from mechanic work and helps to clear my head. The point is I have found a service that is needed, no one else wants to deal with homeowners and it is working for me. I also got hooked up with a landscape contractor and in a couple of weeks I will start hauling him mulch, this usually only last between 8 to 10 Fridays. So far this year I have been hauling more than normal because of the rainfall we have had has washed everyone's driveways. If you can work it out I would try a tandem and if it works you could buy a skidsteer later and see what you could do with that. I bought a 955 track loader and have been practicing with it on the farm, I hope to get some work for it this year. The main thing is check around and see what is out there, also if you can slip your way into parttime and test the waters. Hope this helps you out with your decision.
 

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
Red Bank how are you charging for your loads? Do you have a minimum charge, or is it so much per ton, or so much per mile? Guys around here seem to have a couple different methods depending who they are hauling for. I would like to service the residential side and be able to work with the contractors in the area as well. But I was leaning towards a large single axle. Maybe I am wrong thinking about the single axle but I thought maybe a smaller truck could get into tighter places versus a tandem. There is another quarry about 10 miles farther than this on and it is a little cheaper depending on what you want. They carry more gravel(river rock), pea gravel, decorative rock as the other is all limestone rock.
 

LT-x7

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Central COMMI-fornia
Occupation
Earth Moving Contractor
One thing to consider is what a truck cost you even if it doesn't work. Out here a small dump like that will cost you a couple hundred bucks a month in registration and insurance before you even hit the key. My tactor doesn't cost me a dime if it isn't moving.
 

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
LT-x7 are you refering your tractor as a semi? If so what do you mean it doesnt cost anything if it isnt running. I am not sure what tags run where you live bet here for a class k plate which is up to 32,000 gvw its is $963 a year and for a class z plate which is up to 80,000 gvw it is $3191 a year. So yeah for a truck to just sit around doing nothing can hurt in a hurry. Thats not including insurance either.
 

Arabhacks

Banned
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
146
Location
Texas
Occupation
Underemplyed Operator
Tractor.

Hello.

I think he is thinking tractor in the pure sense of the word.
I have a Tractor/Loader/Backhoe that costs me all of $108 a year, including the trailer it sits on.
This is pulled by a twin screw tandem that costs $1100 a year.
This is all fees and taxes but not including operating expenses.
A 2 axle pickup, not dual tire, is $700 a year.
This includes insurance.
 

LT-x7

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Central COMMI-fornia
Occupation
Earth Moving Contractor
Yes I meant tractor as in offroad, backhoe, skid, ect. Sorry bad choice of words.
I think in times like these everyones equipment is doing a lot of sitting, and thats even worse for someone just starting out. It gets expensive to have a truck sitting in the yard ready to go.
Have you considered a 5yrd dump trailer and skid? Out here trailers are much cheaper to register, plus your going to need a trailer to haul the skid anyway.
 

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
yes I have considered a single axle. That was my original intentions, to get a smaller truck and maybe a skid steer or a mini ex. I just am not sure which way to go as far as tandem and do the trucking thing or get a single axle and pursue the residential services. Driveways will be in need anytime as the ground is soft and the rock is disappearing. I could use the skid steer if I had to for the spreading. I can also try to get some work from the contractors as far as some driveway and sidewalk demo and then I can bring some file be flume, rock, or whatever. Just trying to see which would be the best route for me to go .:beatsme
 

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
class d tags are $158-12000lbs/ class f $277-16000lbs/ class h $561-26000lbs/ class j-$721-28000LBS and class k $963- 32000lbs all of these tags are for single axle or heavy pickup. so even the small of trucks can cost a small fortune. And to step to a tandem or even bigger truck just goes up from there, and that doesnt include trailer tags those can be from $54 to $1502 a year.
 

Red Bank

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
323
Location
North Carolina
I charge my gravel loads by the load, which in my case I charge what the rock from the nearest quarry charges for just the rock. For instance, ABC at the nearest quarry is $300 a load, the quarry I go to is $100 a load, so I make $200 a load. My usual delivery areas take about $37 in fuel per load, so the truck makes $163 a load. 57 washstone is $350 at nearest quarry, the quarry I go to is $180 a load, my profit margin is a little less but I would rather haul 57s because I usually end up spreading the rock with the dumptruck and although I am getting better spreading ABC there are too many variables that can go wrong spreading ABC, 57s always come out nicely. For anything else including mulch I charge around $55 an hour, or try to get it close to that in regards to the amount of time. Last year I was charging $165 a load just to haul the mulch, which I like because mulch is lighter, I use less fuel, I dump it in a pile and roll on:D Around here a lot of people price it by the hour, load, or per ton. I have charged more for rock if it was further away, but I can usually run between 5 and 6 loads per day so in one day I can gross between $1000 to $1200 on rock, mulch around $800 per day. I like the rock deal because when someone calls me they will turn around and call someone else, who usually are a lot bigger company than me and with more trucks, who, because of time will quote rock from the nearest quarry and by the time they add on the delivery fee, my charges look good. Now when they question the rock being cheaper I explain to them there is a difference in the rock. Nearest quarry is blue granite, the quarry I go to is white granite. The white granite is cheaper and also it is a lighter rock which means they get more rock with each load than with the blue rock. The weight difference is substantial, with the blue granite the rock is well below the sideboards, with the white granite it is heaped up over the sideboards almost. Now the point behind all of this is that although this has nothing to do with your situation, this is what I have done to keep my truck busy, thinking outside the box and coming up with solutions for the customer and not just the truck or me. I could haul from the nearest quarry, add my delivery fee on and care less about the customer. But the solution I have come up with is cheaper rock for the customer, more profit for me, and riding to a quarry that is 45 minutes away versus one that is 10 minutes away. My goal has always been to treat each customer the way I want to be treated. I think I am doing a good job, I don't think I am cheating anyone with the cheaper rock because they get more rock. I have one guy that I have hauled 80 loads of rock to over the past three years, he loves rock and keeps it stockpiled on his farm. I also have a couple of building contractors I haul for and need to get in contact with septic tank guys to haul for them. But mostly I am covering driveways.
 

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
Red Bank, sounds like you have done your homework. I think if I were the home owner that I would go with the white granite as well. Seems like you have a nice little start to a business. Do you think it could break into a fulltime job or do like where it is at. Like I said before we have two different quarries around here as well but they differ quite a bit in what they sell. The one closest to me mine limestone. SO you can get anywhere from 3/16 to six inch. They carry roadpack which is your rock and fine crushed limestone all mixed together which makes for a tighter packed base. They carry flume,screenings, and backfill. The other quarry carries what I would call river rock which is what they call washed gravel or ca-5. They also carry pea gravel, sand, and mason sand. So they are two different types of quarries. I dont they anyone around here puts down the ca-5 for their drivesways. Although the county does put down alot of pea gravel when they chip and seal the county roads around here. Its kind of weird because most of our counties roads are done in the pea gravel and the next county up from us uses 3/8 white rock(limestone). I really want to do this but I get so many mixed reactions from people that I dont know which way to go. I know it is whatever I think is best. I dont have any loans right now except my new JD mower. Our vehicles are paid for and our house which we started building last year is paid for upto the point it is now. Will take about another 50,000 to finish which I will have to borrow and to top things off we have our oldest daughter going to college this summer and we have another one due in May. So just really got alot riding on jumping into business for myself which is something that I have been wanting to do for a really long time. Sorry for going on with all that. Got caught up in the moment.:eek: You guys here have really made me think about somethings that I had not thought of. One thing I forgot to asked is where do you find your bulk mulch. Guys around here seem to have just small amounts unless I just dont know where to look.
 
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rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
Was just thinking that you are making more on your fridays throughout the year than I have working 40hrs./week all year long. $1000-1200 for only one day is pretty darn good considering I didnt even make that Ironworking per week.
 

CM1995

Administrator
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
13,248
Location
Alabama
Occupation
Running what I brung and taking what I win
Gross sales, gross pay and net pay are not to be confused.

Good point that too many people don't fully take into consideration. Insurance, maintenance, taxes, registration and repairs are all overhead expenses in addition to your physical plant costs (trucks, equipment), labor and equipment.

If your equipment and trucks are paid for you should get a return on investment (ROI) on your physical plant. If the equipment is financed then the financed costs are an expense. If they are paid for then you should be getting a ROI on that physical plant.

Take for instance:

You have $50K worth of paid for equipment
The local bank will give you 2% interest for a 1 year CD on $50K
$50K at 2% annual = $1009.22 for the year on that investment
CD's are as safe as they come and that is one example.

Now to calculate your net profit on your services you would need to deduct the $1009.22. You made the $1009.22 on your $50K investment separate from your excavating business since you could have invested that amount elsewhere. That is called an opportunity cost, it's a cost in the sense you could have done other investments besides the physical plant. If your physical plant sits for one year it has cost $1009.22 in addition to any other costs associated.

Now if your equipment is financed, the interest charges paid to the bank are an expense to the company and are deducted from gross profit. So there is obviously a benefit to own your equipment outright. If you add your interest payments for a year that are an expense and compare that to your opportunity costs (which isn't a cost in the accounting sense) of paid for physical plant, there is quite a difference.

The above is just a different way of looking at your business assets.
 

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
Oh I know just sounds like descent numbers for one days work especially when he is only doing this one day a week. I know he has fuel cost and probably puts money back for other things. I am sure he gets some cash customers so that can all go to the pocket. Making $163 a load is pretty good for residential. A guy hauled three loads which come to 49 ton and charged $170 for all three loads. If you are in a position to play the market like that then it is easier to. As around here it isnt that easy to subsitute 3/4 whiterock. I just thought that if he ran every friday at six loads, his truck makes $163 after the material and the fuel is paid for and he did eight months work that comes to $31296. Now I realize he will have tags to pay for and some maintenance and possibly put back for tires now and then but all in all that comes pretty good for only one day a week.
 

Red Bank

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
323
Location
North Carolina
To help clarify the situation, those Fridays are not every Friday, and the problem is when I have a day like that I get to thinking that I only need to come up with 52 Fridays like that and could play the rest of the the week. And yes there is the other costs associated with the dump truck, insurance=$1800 a year, license tag=$850 a year, oil changes, tires, unexpected road calls for tires, and then sometime down the road it will need a clutch, engine work, brakes, etc. Ideally I think that if you get $55 an hour that half of that amount belongs to the truck. CM1995 really broke down the numbers good and since this is a parttime deal I don't really analyze numbers like I should. Like I said before I don't write a check to me out of the business, but when I am running during the year I always seem to have extra money;) ( are there any IRS agents on here?:eek:) On the topic of mulch, I get mine at a sawmill, it is a pretty big sawmill, but I know of another smal Mom and Pop sawmill that has mulch too.
 

HEAVY386

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
13
Location
Pleasant valley NY
Occupation
MOBILE EQUIPMENT MECHANIC
Over here in poughkeepsie New York area the money I think is with the homeowners theres a guy that hauls 6wheel pete from local gravel banks and busy every day,most gravel banks don`t have smaller trucks or want to be botherd with the 2-5 yds at a time. Good luck , I`m an independent mobile mechanic and it`s nice to work for yourself if you don`t have to chase your money and ready for uncle sam to ride with you all the time.
 

rs74

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
13
Location
east central illinois
Occupation
in between
Glad to here there are some people out there making it with the single axle truck business. I am not worried so much about uncle sam as he has been a pain in the rear family member since I started working years ago. The steadiness of the work load is what bothers me more.
 
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