ISO/ASE Controls

esobofh · Feb 12, 2010

ISO vs. ASE Controls (I beleive the argument used to be John Deere vs. Cat controls)

What's your preference? Why?

Is there a difference in productivity?

biggrader · Feb 12, 2010

good evening esobofh, we are a small company that started with TLB's Everyone got very good with the controls. when we expanded to bigger excavators, we stuck to ISO pattern even though they were SAE. the one excavator was easy to switch, just a control valve that we had to switch the lever on. One we had to switch some hoses, no big deal. It is alot easier to have the TLB and excavators to have all the same controls. Operators can switch back and forth between the units and feel comfortable. It also makes the guys in the trench feel easier when they know the operator is comfortable. As for productivity, I don't notice any difference. I'm sure I could dig as fast as anyone with the SAE pattern. Just my opinion. I think it is just a matter of preference.

gatorguy · Feb 12, 2010

I agree with biggrader. It is only a matter of preference, this is always a topic of conversation among operators and probably always will be. Operators say that the manufacturers should get together and decide on one pattern but each side (iso/sae) thinks the other sides pattern is absolutely ridiculous. Personally I am a deere pattern man and i refuse to learn the other way because I don't want the confusion of jumping from machine to machine with another mans life in my hands. I firmly beleive that it is better to invest the money in a pattern changer than the time in learning the other pattern.

excavator22 · Feb 12, 2010

I learned to dig on a bantam 166 and that machine had two longer sticks in the middle with 4 pedals on the floor. The right stick controlled the boom up and down and the left stick spun the house. When the company upgraded machines it was easy to adapt with the sae controls. When I got on the tlb's it was weird at first but I adapted to it, but I prefer the sae when digging with excavators. I dont need to think twice when I run iso on tlb's cause its natural now but for whatever reason I prefer and will stay with sae on excavators.

CM1995 · Feb 12, 2010

Here are a few threads that have discussed this topic -

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...?t=4133&highlight=Excavator+control+patterns\

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...p?t=1475&highlight=Excavator+control+patterns

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=9&highlight=Excavator+control+patterns

I prefer JD or "backhoe" controls.

RonG · Feb 13, 2010

Over my career I have run both styles,sometimes for the same employer with Cat excavators and John Deere backhoes.It was never a problem adjusting to either style and I didn't even think about it,it became routine for me.
The problem seems to be when you stay with one style for a period of time there is a slight readjustment needed to become comfortable with the other one.
I worked for one company that had the same equipment but had changed the backhoe to the Cat pattern,that threw me for a few minutes.
It seems like the rubber tires was the trigger that put me in whatever mode I had to be in to make it work.
I prefer the Cat configuration as it seems to be the predominant one in this area but I feel that the John Deere style is more "intuitive",that is to say that if a person with no experience on either style were to learn it from the beginning that the John Deere would be the easiest to become proficient on.
I once applied for a job as an operator running the Cat configuration after running a Hitachi with the JD setup for several months,that was fun.They hired me anyway.

Ron G

dynahoescott · Feb 13, 2010

This has aways been a point of contention for me, although I have considerable experience on hoes I havent ever been able to switch from cat to john deere.I did it once when I went to work for a guy who was renowned for switching 215& 225 excavators to john deere and it took me a solid week to feel totally comfortable. I hated every minute of it,:Banghead for two years I worked there no problem, as soon as I left bennedetto and went back to petrillo to cat style same trouble for two days. case controls, bucyrus controls, dynahoe controls, drott controls no problem, john deere controls, big problem. even on backhoes I prefer case or dynahoe controls

ointhead

ditchdiggerjcf · Feb 13, 2010

A truly good operator can switch back and forth and never miss a beat. Swapping patterns on a backhoe or excavator is for rookies.

dynahoescott · Feb 13, 2010

ditchdiggerjcf said:
A truly good operator can switch back and forth and never miss a beat. Swapping patterns on a backhoe or excavator is for rookies.

excuse me mr. ditchdigger, you are a operator so I am going to imagine you have a certain degree of inteligence. That being said, the statement you made about being a rookie is a completeley moronic, foolish and ignorant comment. I have more than 2 decades experience and will put my reputation up against yours or anybody arrogant enough to say something as stupid as your comment.

tripper_174 · Feb 13, 2010

ditchdiggerjcf said:
A truly good operator can switch back and forth and never miss a beat. Swapping patterns on a backhoe or excavator is for rookies.

That's a pretty foolish comment. Possibly you were confusing an excavator with a $10.95 spade?????

ditchdiggerjcf · Feb 13, 2010

If you can't switch from tlb control pattern to excavator style control pattern you may not be as good an operator as you think you are. I'm just sayin

CM1995 · Feb 13, 2010

This topic has been discussed in detail, as I stated above. Another thread on this topic that goes in the direction that this one is headed will be closed.

ditchdiggerjcf · Feb 13, 2010

I have had guys apply for jobs that could only use TLB pattern on both the hoe and the excavator. They don't get hired because most of them aren't any damn good. I'm not changing the pattern on any machine to suit an inexperienced operator.

dynahoescott · Feb 13, 2010

ditchdiggerjcf said:
If you can't switch from tlb control pattern to excavator style control pattern you may not be as good an operator as you think you are. I'm just sayin

Its true mr. ditchdigger, I do think I am the best hoe operator to ever walk the planet, but the funny thing is there are a lot of people that will agree with me. besides my wife and daughter. that being said I met a lot of operators who can give me a run for my money and I am proud to know and learn from them also. I am man enough not to need to put someone else down to build myself up. my work speaks for itself because my heart is in every bucket I pull out of the ground and I thank god for the talent he blessed me with.

ditchdiggerjcf · Feb 13, 2010

I'm not trying to knock anyone's talent. I do however firmly believe that a truly good operator can swap from one pattern to the other and be just as smooth and proficient on one as he is the other. All it takes is seat time. If you can operate one, you can operate the other.

TimberGhost · Feb 13, 2010

ditchdiggerjcf said:
A truly good operator can switch back and forth and never miss a beat. Swapping patterns on a backhoe or excavator is for rookies.

That ISO/ASE thing is just another name for backhoe/excavator control pattern right? At work we share some equipment with the utilities dept. and their operator always switches the controls around. I can mix and match but everytime I get in I have to double check with slow movements before I get into a good pace.

TimberGhost · Feb 13, 2010

...............

ditchdiggerjcf · Feb 13, 2010

i would have to disable the pattern selector

sultan · Feb 13, 2010

ditchdiggerjcf said:
i would have to disable the pattern selector

Why? Disabling the pattern switcher is absurd. Let your operators use the pattern that they like the best so that they can be the most comfortable and productive. Its good to be able to use both patterns, but everyone is better at one over the other. With the pattern selector, switching patterns is almost no effort on anyone's part.

ditchdiggerjcf · Feb 13, 2010

I don't think I am any better on one than the other. The change is done almost without thinking. Swapping patterns on the same machine is dangerous IMHO

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