dayexco
Senior Member
no, what he said was spot on.....there is a heckuva difference between hard and dense. maybe i didn't explain myself well enough there. since then and my experiences with soils..he was absolutely right!
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DIY Compaction Testing
- Thread starter chrisbowles
- Start date
no, what he said was spot on.....there is a heckuva difference between hard and dense. maybe i didn't explain myself well enough there. since then and my experiences with soils..he was absolutely right!
bell142
Active Member
"Compaction" test are really density test. Hardness of the material in most cases is a direct corrolation of the density of a material. We have a great soil Engineer thats been in our area forever. He is great about explaining the how, what, why questions that you may have . Soils on the microscopic level are an interesting thing, it makes compaction a science and allows you to be efficient with compaction techniques, not just rolling till its "hard".
i do agree that you need density but when they tell you to add more water cuz the machine says so and the water is just making the soil pump and move i think that there is a problem.... i call it hydropacking when they want us to do that:Banghead
dayexco
Senior Member
water is nothing more than a lubricant allowing the soil particles to slide together easier during the compaction process...that's why engineers like it, they like to see the soil put in a consistent moisture content where they have determined to be the optimum content to achieve it with the least effort. generally speaking....these guys aren't your enemies. i know, some are equipped with bad lab data, had a fight with wife that morning and have a chip on their shoulder...happens all the time. but their goal, AND should be yours...is to have an end result for the customer that is at your best ability to provide, and done so in a timely fashion..most engineers are not out there to harass you or cost you money, they're there to monitor the quality of your work. the intent of them on the project is to insure the owner of a quality product, and to assist the contractor by relating what their lab results have given. soil techs are employees of the engineering firm that bear all the costs (taxes/ins./vehicles/shop space/office space, etc. etc.....that employees of a construction company does...they want them in and out of that project as quickly as possible. my experience in the 29 years i've been in business is....you go 40% of the way, if you're effort is sincere, ..show good intent/effort...they'll bend over backwards to come the other 60% to help you, not deter you.
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dayexco
Senior Member
an added note...a lot of "hack" contractor's in the underground biz...consider compaction to be a loser, whine about it...that's why i LOVE a tough soils engineer on the job and having the reputation of being so...i like hearing some guy coming in and low balling a job to get it in the hopes of having a no show/passive/weak soils engineer only to get their balls busted and have to do the job properly and lose their tush...we view compaction as a pay item just as we do with the excavation, and installation of the pipe and bid accordingly.
special tool
Senior Member
I agree 100% with this.
These are guys with zero experience in the actual mechanical aspects of the structure.
This is the same reason I don't like to see demolition companies with no idea how to actually CONSTRUCT the building.
If you are not familiar with at least the basic fundamentals of construction, you don't belong on the job.
spyder
Member
...lol dayexco,,I didn't know you felt that way about me
sorry, I couldn't resist....
although I am not an engineer, I am going to ensure that compaction is done correctly and according to spec., if I hear any whinning, I just ask the Contractor to put his concerns in a letter, funny I have never received a letter yet..wonder why.
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buddy605
Well-Known Member
I am a soil Tech and run around here with a Nuke. I also work for a small compant so I do the Procter and Concrete and asphalt testing. I like that it varies so much. Four years ago I was up to Construction superintendantbut got sick of living out of the suit case. The nuke and procter for processed aggregates (and Asphalt)like class A or Type one it is a excellent tool and works well with. However the problem arrises is with natural fills like pit runs and clays. A procter is taking representative sample and jamming it in a 6" mold, one little stone here makes a huge difference either way. The other problem is with larger materials , it is not represenative. is the rod against a rock or void 1 foot down. I try to work with the contractors I deal with. I proof roll most times but I need to use the nuke to document in case something happens 20 years from now and then everyone is covered. The way I proof roll is have a tandem, roller or even a big plate tamper go over the area in question and I look for the ground not to sping back after loading is off. Dispite what Bomag, Dynapac and the rest of the guys tell you. you Cannot compact to a passing grade with more then a one foot lift. I just had to prove this to a contractor and the Cat rental guy this week. they tried to tell me that the big Cat roller could compact in 3 foot lifts. so I had them put in a 3 foot lift like they wanted and had them beat it like they owed them money then dig down 2 feet and ti was 85% well guess they had to dig it all out. The Class A or Type 1 in this area is 7.5 - 8.5 % uptimum moisture and a matimum dry density of 2150 - 2200 Kg/m3.
CM1995
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 13,373
- Location
- Alabama
- Occupation
- Running what I brung and taking what I win
Well said. Geotechs are there to cover our ass, the owner and themselves. They are an important part of the project team. Correct documentation of your part of the project is invaluable in the event something goes wrong later down the line. Attorneys us the shotgun approach and proper documentation of compaction testing meeting specs may keep you out of the courtroom.
I am fortunate to have a geotech company I have worked many projects with. The owner and 2nd in charge are just a phone call away to make a site visit if we run into something we didn't expect or are having problems meeting compaction. The soils in our working area vary greatly, even on the same site. Several times we have had to take more proctors due to changing materials.
This particular firm has done work on past projects for myself and I have recommended them to many GC's to use as well. Some of the bids I lost but they ended up working on the project. Later they told us they wished we had gotten the job.:cool2
AtlasRob
Senior Member
No prob, I gotcha first time, it just struck me that the man was maybe too sharp and needed a bucket to realign his attitude
but it obviously worked for you :thumbsup:jawdrop ................
opcorn
Monte1255
Senior Member
Anhydrous applications to aid in compaction?
maybe other members of HEF can help me out on this.........here is what I've been told. At a local fertilizer meeting the statement was made that during WWII the US Gov used Anhydrous Ammonia as an aid in construction of runways for the planes in the South pacific. the claim by the fertilizer rep was that Anhydrous basicly killed off microbes in the soil thus aiding in the compaction of runways. Has anyone ever heard of this method to aid in compaction? If so, are there other similar chemical aids employed in today's construction techniques? just wondering mostly and I do apologize for the hijacking of the thread.
:beatsme
maybe other members of HEF can help me out on this.........here is what I've been told. At a local fertilizer meeting the statement was made that during WWII the US Gov used Anhydrous Ammonia as an aid in construction of runways for the planes in the South pacific. the claim by the fertilizer rep was that Anhydrous basicly killed off microbes in the soil thus aiding in the compaction of runways. Has anyone ever heard of this method to aid in compaction? If so, are there other similar chemical aids employed in today's construction techniques? just wondering mostly and I do apologize for the hijacking of the thread.
:beatsme
stock
Senior Member
I have heard of that but never seen it in practice ,the theory is that where good, stable base material was unavailable by killing off the microbes the organics would not decay and there fore would hold as a base material it is however a short lived exercise.