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Slow movin Michigan Loader

snowshoveler

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
12
Location
bridgewater nova scotia
i have been reading this topic with interest because a neighbor has an older michigan loader with transmission problems of its own.
i have finally decided to join up so maybee i can learn about about these old machines.
i beleive the local machine is a 75 b but it is quite old .motor runs well but loader picked up more than it could carry .
after rear wheels came back to the bottom the tranny decided to start venting fluid.
tranny has been out and in more times than folks remember.
it works just wont hold fluid.
any ides would be helpfull.
ive been thinking of buying if priced right and if i could repair it for slightly less than the price of a new house.
thanks chris
ps when i can i will post a pic and numbers in a new thread ,probably belongs in the old iron thread.
thanks for letting me in
 

Komatsu 150

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
673
Location
Northern Illinois
If it's like our old 75 the proper level for fluid in the trans is quite low. If oil is coming out the vent it usually means one of the pump shaft seals is leaking oil and transferring oil from the hydraulic tank to the converter housing which drains into the trans and overfills it. In other words nothing to do with the trans at all. Hope that might help.
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
The single best cure for transmission problems (Clark) in Michigan loaders, is to jack the loaders up high and slide an equivalent Caterpillar loader in under them. In working with the model 75, 125, 275, 280 and the 475's, I experienced tranny problems with every one of them, some much more serious and expensive than others. Clark and Michigan just never seemed to get the bugs out and working on a 475 tranny in a surface coal mine in Kentucky at three in the morning in August is no fun at all.

Michigan should have wised up early and installed Allison transmissions in their loader models. The Clarks caused more than tranny problems however. Because of the tremendous torque and rapid acceleration of the 16V Detroit engines in the 475 models, the bell housings to the transmissions would crack and the tranny mounting bolts would break. The engine mounts would also break out, never did find a good cure for that. The 475's could eat a bushel basket of brand new clutch packs before noon every day. The dealer couldn't keep up with the rebuilds we needed for these machines.

These machines all had more than their fair share of hydraulic problems too, which left you with wondering why in the hell you bought one in the first place. Most operators liked them however for their speed and power. Much faster than the Cats of the time, up till the 42X 992C hit the market, and actually still faster than those, but that's about the time their undependability kicked in.
 

rktdispatch

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
5
Location
Livingston, CA
Occupation
Trucking company owner and dispatcher
I am still looking for a manual for a 75 B Michigan Clark and also one for a Cat 920. The Clark seems to have an air acuated transmission lock out. If the air pressure is a little low it will not shift into gear. Can anyone tell me how to fix or bypass this feature?
 

Tom Spivak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
ontario
i have been reading this topic with interest because a neighbor has an older michigan loader with transmission problems of its own.
i have finally decided to join up so maybee i can learn about about these old machines.
i beleive the local machine is a 75 b but it is quite old .motor runs well but loader picked up more than it could carry .
after rear wheels came back to the bottom the tranny decided to start venting fluid.
tranny has been out and in more times than folks remember.
it works just wont hold fluid.
any ides would be helpfull.
ive been thinking of buying if priced right and if i could repair it for slightly less than the price of a new house.
thanks chris
ps when i can i will post a pic and numbers in a new thread ,probably belongs in the old iron thread.
thanks for letting me in
Komatsu is correct on this, he advised me correctly before that the trans level was high, I had fluid blowing out the breather.
The pumps seals are leaking for sure. If you have to top up your hydralic more than usual then thats the problem. The pumps leak into the converter. The proper level is at the check plug. Mine was so bad the resivoir would drain empty into the trans.
If you take one pump out, take them all out so you can be sure you fixed the problem.Fluid is too exspensive these days. You will save the cost of the seals many times over. Machine will run better with correct fluid in trans as well.
 

snowshoveler

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
12
Location
bridgewater nova scotia
I went and got some pics of the loader this evening.
I will mention that its pretty old in my opinion although the lettering says 75b.
Sorta looks like a fishbowl on 4 doughnuts.
And yes it does have a cab on it with heat (yipee).
main reason i would like this is for snow removal at home. Not planning to go making money with it. Might be pretty handy around my small sawmill as well.
So as its looking so far it just needs the pumps overhauled.
I did take pics of the underside as well and it looks like at least 1 of the pumps is external to the tranny.
While doing a quick look over it seems to me that most parts including the tranny arent excessive in size or weight.
I do realize they are still larger than what i normally wrench on (small engine tech) but i do have the tools and some of the ability.
The fellow that tried to repair it said the engine was rebuilt shortly before it had its tranmission problem. Of course the engine is my favorite a detroit.
Thanks for now,ill post pics when allowed
Chris
 

snowshoveler

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
12
Location
bridgewater nova scotia
here are some pics of the 75a that thinks its a b
thanks for looking
chris
 

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Komatsu 150

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
673
Location
Northern Illinois
That is an A no doubt. I think I'll tell how my 175A became a B. When I repainted it the only decals available from Michigan were 175B -- so I upgraded the machine!
 

Tom Spivak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
ontario
I agree, 75A, I envy the cab. Sure wish I could score one, mines homemade and OK but they look pretty goofy without the factory cab.
Sending my head out for new injectors and sleeves next week. Yippee! no more diesel in the oil. I can get back to work.
 

Komatsu 150

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
673
Location
Northern Illinois
I agree, 75A, I envy the cab. Sure wish I could score one, mines homemade and OK but they look pretty goofy without the factory cab.
Sending my head out for new injectors and sleeves next week. Yippee! no more diesel in the oil. I can get back to work.

Tom, I don't know that there ever was a factory cab. Our 75A has a rollback deal. The windshield stays put and the whole rest of the cab rolls back on tracks like a World War 2 fighter plane. Makes it easier to get out of but always let lots of cold air in. Our 175A has two side doors. The right side is an emergency exit with no hinges, pull the handle and the door falls off. The left side has a huge single hinge and the door pivots straight up like an exotic car.
 

Tom Spivak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
ontario
One of the guys up here has one with a door that slides back and the other I think may have been like you say with a hinge but it always falls off so he never has it on unless it's bug season, then he wires it on.
 

Tom Spivak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
ontario
Dfference in 75C

My manual only shows 75A, 75C, 75R.
Would help to know approx. year and engine.
Pictures are best and what engine is in it.
 

Riley

New Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Indiana
On a hunch, I drained the transmission and got 63 US quarts of nasty looking fluid out. I was sure that was'nt right.
I refilled with 16 US quarts of TDH and it now drives nearly perfect, or at least faster than I would ever want to drive it.
I run it for 6 hours in the bush through heavy mud with no trouble.
Another forum member sent me a manual today and it confirms that the trans was overfilled. It calls for type A trans fluid, what's the equivalent of that?
Also, I can't get this thing to shut down with the governor shut off lever, idle is set low and motor runs absolutely perfect with no drips or smoke.

I have a Michigan 125A with the same problem. It moves very slowly when first started but then gets somewhat better as it warms up. The problem seems to be getting worse, to the point where it's hard to dig loose sand. The loader has the Detroit 3-71 but I think that it was swapped in at some point.

Do you guys think that it could be the same problem. If so, can you tell me where is the correct place to check the trans fluid level?

Thanks.
 

Tom Spivak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
ontario
Fluid too high

There is a fluid check plug on the front side of the tranny about a foot above the drain plug.
If the fluid level is too high,
it's almost a sure bet that the pump seals for the steering, hydralics, or whatever are leaking down back into the tranny.
They share common fluid and when the seals go bad the hydralics drain into the tranny.
When it's full it will produce about 63 to 64 qt.s fluid when drained.
Any more than that and it comes out the vent at the top of the tranny housing.
You can use dexron.
If you go back on the old posts on this thread you may find more info, but it's the seals, you can bet on it.
Taking the pumps out is a dirty do it yourself project, but take the pumps to a shop and get them rebuilt, it's such a pain in the buttocks to take them out that you don't want to do it again.
Theres a bunch of hose to get out of the way to take them out.
This would be a good time to get all the gunky fluid out as well.
It will take a lot of fluid changes to get it clear again if ever.
 
Last edited:

Tom Spivak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
ontario
Not sure if a 125A is the same but there is a drain plug at the bottom of the trans and a second one on the side about a foot up, this is the level check.

I have a Michigan 125A with the same problem. It moves very slowly when first started but then gets somewhat better as it warms up. The problem seems to be getting worse, to the point where it's hard to dig loose sand. The loader has the Detroit 3-71 but I think that it was swapped in at some point.

Do you guys think that it could be the same problem. If so, can you tell me where is the correct place to check the trans fluid level?

Thanks.
 

Riley

New Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Indiana
Tom,

I found the drain and check plugs on the trans. I pulled the check plug slowly expecting a flood of fluid coming out. Instead I found nothing. I stuck my little finger in the hole and could not reach fluid. I added 2 gallons and I could finally reach the fluid with my finger but just barely. I started the loader and it drove 100% better. I'll get a couple more gallons of dextron and fill it up to the check hole.

I have to thank you for your help with this. I really appreciate the guidance. I'll be sure to keep an eye on the trans fluid from now on.
 

Tom Spivak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
ontario
The next thing you want to find out is where the original fluid went to in the first place.
Whatch for leaks and drips.
Most often from the shift rods or seals.
Good luck, glad I could be of help in a round about way.
 
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