How would you move this dirt?

Hey everyone,

ODOT has a large 4 lane highway bidding here in a few weeks. The highway is about 10 miles in length.

I am NOT actually bidding this project, but I do have plans and specs for it and have been working on a price for my owne edcation for about a month and a half.

I am curious as to how all of you interested in earthmoving would like to go about this project as far as machines, how many pieces of equipment etc.? I've got my own way as to how I would do it, I will post my fleet list after some posts start coming in. I thought this would be interesting for everyone to see what opinions other forum members had on this type of project. The following are the details to the earthmoving portion of the project:

The project is on very flat ground.

576,172 CY of Excavation
2,160,017 CY of Embankment

175,551 CY of that excavation quantity is a Detention Basin adjacent to the ROW. It is 5,000' in length and 220-260' in width. The basin cuts are from 3-6'.

The remaining excavation are shallow cuts, such as swales on each side of the highway and minor areas within the ROW. No 'bulk' cuts.

There are (4) overpasses, one of which is an interchange that has (4) ramps in a diamond interchange format.

The project begins at station 837 - the first overpass is at station 920. The first county the project is in ends at station 1030, the next county the station numbers begin at 0. The second overpass is at station 30. The third overpass is at station 85. The interchange overpass is at station 190. The project ends at station 327. The Detention Basin is from stations 243-283

The following are the station locations and size of the bororw pits given by ODOT.

Figure 20-21' Pit Depths - 3:1 Inside Slopes
Pit #1 - Station 920 - 4.96 Acres - 118,369 CY
Pit #2 - Station 1030 - 30.75 Acres - 896,533 CY
Pit #3 - Station 30 - 2.09 Acres - 40,218 CY
Pit #4 - Station 85 - 2.09 Acres - 40,218 CY
Pit #5 - Station 195 - 20.67 Acres - 594,460 CY

There is 200,000 CY of Topsoil required for seeding, within the excavation and on the borrow pits we could salvage 100,000 CY. I figured on stripping portions of the ROW in embankment areas to salvage the other 100,000 CY - yielding more borrow.

Entire project completion date isn't until 2013, but the earthwork wouldn't extend to that date.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

623s, a couple D6Rs with GPS and a GPS grader.

Elevated scrapers don't need big cuts, but can do moderate "bulk" work, the D6Rs can do bulk pushes and rough/fine grading, push dirt out of places the scrapers can't get in and strip from the ROW to the shoulders, and the grader finshes everything off. 4 scrapers I figure ~6,000 cubes a day (this is a low number as the dozers are going to be moving alot too) 83 days so under 3 months.

What time of year would we be looking at? Don't forget to factor in Ohio weather.

Thanks for the replies.

Vantage TeS,
I couldn't agree more regarding the self loading scrapers with shallow cuts. Your total after 83 days is 498,000 CY - there is over 2.1 million CY of earthwork on the project, I'm guessing this would change your fleet?

Mike,
Project bids April 29th - figure end of May or beginning of June until things would be able to begin. I wouldn't figure on moving dirt too far into November or anytime before March or even April. But other than that I guess if you had to it could be done in other conditions, but due to the completion date that would be unnecessary.

Alot whould have to depend on ground conditions and haul routes for the borrow areas. If it had to be moved over the exisiting road, or could be done all off road.
If the embankment barrow muck has to be moved on a highway, road legal belly dumps being loaded by a 980 fed by a D9 would be the way to go. If it was off-road, I would use the same six 637's that I would use for the sliver cuts and fills, along with the D9 as a rip cat and clean up cat.
I would also have a couple D6 lgp's and a couple blades. Mabey a wide pad 5 for the slope and abutment work.
Its hard for me to say without seeing the actual site and plans, but from the sound of it, Id use twin engine scrappers and or highway legal belly dumps.
Jason

My fleet was to include:
(4) 627
(2) MT 875 w/ E-22
(8) 40 Ton Off-Road Trucks
375
(2-3) 825
D6N w/GPS
D7R
D8R w/GPS
(2) D8L
613 WW
Highway Truck WW
(2) 140
Tractor and Disk w/ Compactor/Drag/Disk

The Pull Pans were bid to do the Topsoil work, as well as the cuts within the Detention Basin. The scrapers were going to handle the short hauls, up to 2500', some situations 3000'. The trucks would handle the rest. For simple math figure 10 hour production days as an easy way to look at the job. The trucks would have 91 days worth of work. The 627's would have 138 days worth of work. The pull pans would have 95 days worth of work. Obviously these three dirt spreads would run concurrently. I considered sizing down the excavator for the earthwork, but decided to stick with the 375. The pull pans would be first on the job with topsoil work. Next would be 627's, they would get in there and run the short hauls and build the embankment for the bridge approaches. The 627's would handle all bridge approach work, all borrow pits are near the bridges. This would allow us not to rush the off-road truck mobilization. Since the scrapers have 48 more days worth of work than the trucks, this would free up that 375 for installing some of the large drainage culverts prior to embankment work on top of them. The overall earth to be moved with each spread would be as follows:

627's - 793,211 CY
740's - 896,533 CY
E 22 - 375,551 CY

Your probably wondering where the other 375,000 CY of fill is coming from - this is the excess excavation from the basin and topsoil stripping. Because this is in a few high areas in the ROW and in the swales on the outsides a D7R equipped with GPS would be working full time cutting and pushing this material onto the subgrade area.

Assuming 30 days of after bid date for award, this wouldn't be awarded until early June, papers signed, notice to proceed etc. I think were looking at late June at the earliest, probably July before the earthwork would even begin. There are some restrictions - one bridge embankment cannot be built until a bridge is completed on a different project, which is expected to be in July 2010. Also, there is granular embankment beneath some bridge fills with wick drains, surcharges and so forth. There are restrictions when to remove surcharge and construct the rest of the fill. There is granular material within the ROW, 157,000 CY of aggregate that will be going on during earthwork, lots of coordination there.
The embankment on the roadway is evenly spread throughout the 10 miles, except on the bridges and interchange ramps. The average haul distances out of the borrow pits are as follows: 2,000 Ft, 9,825 Ft, 1,800 Ft, 1,500 Ft, 2,750 Ft and 2,500 Ft on the basin.

This is the way I visioned the job. Overall this job comes out to moving around 2.5 million bank yards of material. I've got about $4.10/CY to complete earthwork, this doesn't include topsoil re-spread. After I am finished with the cost estimating on the project I will create a CPM Schedule on Excel to represent time frames and orders for completing the work with dates leading up to June 2013. The schedule will represent everything from closing a County Road for 3 days, to forming a bridge abutment, to the months of mass excavation. I know I will be scratching my head quite a bit with that.

Hopefully we will see some more opinions.

Thanks,

Nolan

I would go with 637's or 631's, and I think you are light on water wagons. 613's are too small to stay with a good 627 or 637/631 spread. 621 or 631 water wagons would be better, at least two. I notice that you don't mention a water tower either. They are an absolute must as otherwise, the water wagons spend too much time just sitting waiting to be loaded. Doesn't matter if you pump your own water or get it from a fireplug. Having the tower(s) will really help.

The water wagon and water tower situation fits the haul truck fills better too, I'm assuming they are artics. I realize that Ohio soil may not need as much water as soils here in the west, you didn't mention if the material is clay or typical midwest dirt with high water content. None the less, you will need to water the fills for compaction, and control dust on haul roads and cuts.

The 8L's are fine to push 627's, too light for 631's. For those you need at least a D9N or T. A pair of 8L's would work with good operators however.

You will need a couple of motor graders, I'd suggest 14's if using 637/631's, or 140's if using the 627's.

Don't forget a fuel truck, a lube truck, and one or two mechanic service trucks with welders and compressors. Then you have an office trailer and project storage boxes or trailers to consider. Lots of people forget to include them in the costs. If you store petroleum products on the site, you will need tanks and containment facilities.

I don't see a loader or tool carrier on your list. Am assuming you will need for culvert installation and other needs. How about loader-backhoes, say a Cat 420 or two or Deere 410's/310'?

825's are heavy and expensive to operate and move. You might consider 815's instead. How about vibratory models like a Dynapac CA25 with sheepsfoot drum? Are you needing the compactors to knock down behind the haul trucks?

Just some suggestions.

surfer-joe,

Thank you for your response and suggestions. I planned on running (2) of the smaller water wagons, I'll be sure to make a note of your suggestion and check out what the contractor does this summer on the project. Good point on the water tower, that is very nice to have on-site.

I planned on having the D8L's in the fill, they wouldn't be in the cut pushing the 627's. I planned on having the 627's self-loading and/or push pulling in the cut. I planned on running (2) 140's for haul road maintenance, blading fill etc.

The mechanics and lube trucks, fuel trucks etc. are not listed in the list of equipment but they are included in my price. Office trailer is setup as a seperate pay item on ODOT projects, so that is taken care of, as well as mobilization.

You are correct in saying I didn't include iron for culvert installtion, all that is seperate within the project. The list I provided in the previous post is for earthwork alone.

Interesting note regarding 825 v. 815, never really heard of that before. I'll be sure to take that into consideration. Never thought about vib. compactors, will consider that. The D8L's would be knocking down fill for the haul trucks with the compactors doing finer grading and compacting.

Thanks again, I appreciate the comments.

fensoncont. said:

Interesting note regarding 825 v. 815, never really heard of that before. I'll be sure to take that into consideration. Never thought about vib. compactors, will consider that. The D8L's would be knocking down fill for the haul trucks with the compactors doing finer grading and compacting.

Thanks again, I appreciate the comments.

Click to expand...

Surfer Joe's right, an 825 is considerably larger than the 815, and so it will suck down more fuel and just be more expensive. If you are using the 8 to push down the piles, having the 815 come in behind and clean up any little windrows left behind/graded as it compacts will be plenty. Depending on the size trucks hauling in, you could get away with just the 815's or even going smaller on teh dozer (like a D6r/t)

Equiping the 815 with GPS would sufficantly help as well, but because of the sheepsfoot wheels and lighter blade the accuracy can suffer in rocky material where the machine is bouncing around a lot.

Very interesting read. Never been involved with this size of project but its always neat to see how each person/company would go about doing the same project. Any of you Ohio guys remember the contractor a few years ago on a large interchange project that took an extra month to line things up and ended up finishing the project 3 months or so before the estimated finish date. I think I read about it in Western Builder.

Trbo

I can't place what particular project you are talking about?

I can give you a fact about another large project being undertaken by ODOT currently. It is the Major Reconstruction of SR 8/IR 271 in Summit County. The contractor is Beaver Excavating Company of Canton, Ohio. This is a $91 million project, it bid in November of 2006 and Beaver began various start up work in January/February of 2007. The completion date in the proposal was 7/31/2010. According to the project website Beaver is going to finish in August of this year, nearly 1 year in advance. The project had 750,000 CY of Embankment to be trucked in and I'm thinking around 150,000 SF of MSE Wall. They subcontracted the earthwork to Independence Excavating. I drove around the project a few times but didn't really stop to check it out. It was amazing to say the least, bridges going over bridges. The project isn't like big dirt jobs when you can bring in big iron and lots of and run nights to move a lot of dirt quick to meet a deadline. I'm sure there were several restrictions for closing highways, night work and so forth. I read online Beaver is potentially going to receive a $750,000 bonus on the project.

There is a guy on the forum who took a tour of the project, maybe he will chime in and give us some info, or maybe even pictures?

If I were doing this i would forget the scrapers and start off with a 992 and 4 773 haul trucks for the large cuts and fills then maybe 8 or 9 740's and a 385 for the long distant hals as far as dozers a coupld 8L's or 9R's 4 563 car rollers 2 D6txw with 6 way blades 2 water trucks dust control is a pay item on state work. maybe a 980 for helping out the 385 and moving material around. an 2 14 m graders with gps. 2 field engineers with kubota rtv1000's with topcon gps systems to stay ahead with layout. Notice i don't put Gps on the dozers i figure we pay the operators enough they should be able to follow the stakes.

I was on the route 8/271 project as a oiler for All crane when they were setting bridge beams

Did you happen to take any shots of the work? I bet that was quite an experience to be on that project, any interesting facts about the project?

I dont have any pics of the project Nolan. I wasnt there for too long. I was just filling in for another oiler. You would like the project that is starting right down the road from me on route 8 at the stow/ hudson border. Independence excavating is putting in a interchange. They have a decent amount of machines there. About 4-5 adt's, a d7, 2 d6's, pc228, a cat 385, and some other machines.