977 K Vs 973

HI All,

I am looking at buying a farm (approx 67 acres) and it needs alot of clearing
(almost all is 15 year old growth since it was previously timbered).

I am looking at 2 machines that are in similar condition (per the owners since they are relatively far away (500 miles)...Both reportedly 30% UC....

The 977K is $5500 but the 973 is $16500.....I like the lower price of the 977 BUT do you think it's worth it to get the newer machine because it is hydrostatic?

I am in the lawn care business and I like the hydro machines WAY more than the old belt drives....I also drive trucks with Automatics more than sticks...Would this mean I should get the 973 over the 977?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Andrew


PS - I realize both machines are huge but since I am not an expert operator I think the extra power and size would make up for the lack of expertise....I can operate my Case 680E backhoe very well tho (I have to say I do gravitate towards the bigger stuff OR would you think I should go smaller so in the future I could possibly do some side jobs excavating for others without having to resort to hiring a low boy all the time to move my stuff?

where are you located?

i think you would be more then fine with a 55 or 53 sized machine...brush clearing really doesn't require a huge machine like a 77 or 73...i do like the size of them, but added to that...a 73 for only $16500 is going to be in rough condition

the size doesnt make a difference in operating...they all have the same controls...we have a 955 and it is simple to operate, especially in a wide open field...downside they burn fuel like its their job

HI,

Thanks for the reply....I am in Charlottesville, VA.....I do see way more 953's running around here than 973's (I've only seen one of these up close...WOW)....

A while back I hired an excavator top clear some land (he had a 955) and it did an amazing job on some really big trees...

Interesting thing about the machines tho is that is sees like the really big ones are often priced lower than some of the smaller ones (I guess because the smaller ones are more "mobile" for transport from job to job. and hence maybe higher in demand?..

The 973 is claimed to be in good shape except for the 30% UC....I kinda like the idea of Hydro since they seem WAY better from the adjustment standpoint.....(at least on lawn equipment)....NO constant adjusting....just keep the filters clean and fluid changes every once in awhile and you are good to go....Of course if a pump or motor goes AARG...The company that owns the 973 says it is ready and the only reason they are selling is because of the economy being slow and it was their back up machine anyways...

If you had to get one what would you do?...Go the extra $$..or play it conservative?

Thanks!

Andrew

Andyinchville said:

HI,

Thanks for the reply....I am in Charlottesville, VA.....I do see way more 953's running around here than 973's (I've only seen one of these up close...WOW)....

A while back I hired an excavator top clear some land (he had a 955) and it did an amazing job on some really big trees...

Interesting thing about the machines tho is that is sees like the really big ones are often priced lower than some of the smaller ones (I guess because the smaller ones are more "mobile" for transport from job to job. and hence maybe higher in demand?..

The 973 is claimed to be in good shape except for the 30% UC....I kinda like the idea of Hydro since they seem WAY better from the adjustment standpoint.....(at least on lawn equipment)....NO constant adjusting....just keep the filters clean and fluid changes every once in awhile and you are good to go....Of course if a pump or motor goes AARG...The company that owns the 973 says it is ready and the only reason they are selling is because of the economy being slow and it was their back up machine anyways...

If you had to get one what would you do?...Go the extra $$..or play it conservative?

Thanks!

Andrew

Click to expand...

One thing you dfinitely don't need to do is compromise on machine selection in this economy.
You should be writing the ticket.
Forget anything with 30% botton on a big loader - do you know what they cost to replace??!!
Also - consider more seriously the smaller machine if you saw it work on your property - you'll save money in fuel. A 977 is not really an economical machine.

"I could possibly do some side jobs excavating for others without having to resort to hiring a low boy all the time to move my stuff?"

I have a deere 450c trackloader and without its counterweights or backhoe or winch it weights 18k pounds, making this little bugger a dumptruck trailer load at minimum. If I were you I'd be looking at a cat 939 or 943, Deere 450 - 555 & and I'd try to find a cherry machine.

Now a 977 and 973 are not just lowboy loads, they are oversize loads, requiring heavy trailers, heavy trucks, and permits to move. Figure a operating weight of 60k pounds for a 973, not sure on a 77k. I'll bet that when you go to fix the undercarriage that you will spend more in that then you did for the rest of the machine. Also working a worn undercarriage in forestry conditions is a recipe for throwing a track and sliding down a hill, and with a 977/973, that fix is going to be expensive to say the least.

Find yourself a much smaller machine, in much nicer condition, it will be well worth it.

Check out these 939's http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...Grp=939&GUID=FA0FFF80D5AF4F2984A1DD6A097C3B03. (Also search the Deere's, I am just a Cat guy)

I don't know exactly what a bottom complete with idlers, rollers, chains, etc would cost for a '77 or '73 but I would imagine you would have way more in your new undercarriage than the purchase price of the machine.

I am currently getting prices for my 953C for just pads, bolts and sprockets plus a P&B turn. Cat's price for the turn, parts and labor is around $6K and that does not include the rollers, idlers, labor etc for the rest of the UC and those are the expensive parts.

Something to consider also is before you purchase any machine just go to the local parts counter and check prices on things you know could go out or just normal maintenance items.

Smaller machine usually means cheaper parts and O&O costs.

Do you have any pictures of these machines? Post them here and I'm sure you will get some very good information from the members.

I would believe that each of these machines would probably be in pretty bad shape. If you are considering the 977 get some oil samples from the final drives. Rebuilding just one side would be way more than the cost of the machine.

The smaller machines are amazing, if you have a little more time, it will save you a lot of money. If you are clearing land, look for a 4-1 bucket, it will make your life much easier.

RT

HI,

Interesting.....I do agree a lot can be done with a smaller machine but I am wondering too with the huge machines the job would go sooo much quicker right? (of course assuming no breakdowns!)....

On a side note concerning fuel usage, I have read that in towing....sometimes the bigger engine actually uses less fuel overall (I think the theory is a small engine straining uses more fuel overall than a larger engine that is "loafing"....could the same idea apply here or is the general though that the 15 year growth would pose no problem for the smaller loaders?

Andrew

The two things you should be looking for are a 4-1 bucket and good u/c. A 4-1 bucket is like a thumb on excavator, you can do without one, but unless bucket volume is crucial, why would you? With a 4-1 bucket, unless working in hardpan, rippers aren't a requirement. I like the rear engine loaders better, better weight distribution, longer idler life, better visibility, etc. Both of the cats are rear engine, but the most cheaper deeres are front engine.
CAT 943s
CAT 953s
Deere 655s
Deere 755s

hvy 1ton said:

The two things you should be looking for are a 4-1 bucket and good u/c. A 4-1 bucket is like a thumb on excavator, you can do without one, but unless bucket volume is crucial, why would you? With a 4-1 bucket, unless working in hardpan, rippers aren't a requirement. I like the rear engine loaders better, better weight distribution, longer idler life, better visibility, etc. Both of the cats are rear engine, but the most cheaper deeres are front engine.
CAT 943s
CAT 953s
Deere 655s
Deere 755s

Click to expand...

Both of who Cats?
He is asking about 977 and 973....a 977 has the engine where it belongs.....in front.

A 973 with 30% U/C is no deal at all, and both those loader are big for his application, theres no reason to be burning that much fuel if your not moving big dirt. I was just showing him whats floating around web.
I don't know how serious he is about doing jobs after finishing his land but, the bottom line is to move a machine without a lowboy a 943 or 953 are the best options.
a few good 953s all on the east coast a couple in NC
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6043323&GUID=F4FC34ED864B4EE2BEE49B7AF9D94358
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6573350&GUID=F4FC34ED864B4EE2BEE49B7AF9D94358
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6290270&GUID=F4FC34ED864B4EE2BEE49B7AF9D94358
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6522849&GUID=F4FC34ED864B4EE2BEE49B7AF9D94358
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6408585&GUID=F4FC34ED864B4EE2BEE49B7AF9D94358

Well I agree 100% with that.

another thing to remember is it will be easier to learn how to run the machine correctly and efficiently if the machine itself is a little smaller. I think an older 943 in good condition would be right up your alley.

Another thing to remember is those big machines are quite heavy and do like to get stuck under circumstances (like operating in the woods). It would be a lot easier (and cheaper) to get a 43 unstuck vs. a 73.

a 943 would be perfect for you...we have one and it might be my favorite machine to run

we have a 955 for sale...$22.5K i believe...great U/C. great paint, starts right up...runs like a champ

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the input so far....As far as me doing work "on the side" after using it on my property, I haven't really done a lot with the equipment I have in the past BUT this winter I am going to try to hustle for some extra work (my regular work is lawn care but the onset of cold and the fact that all othe leaves are already picked up leaves me basically unemployed (happens like this every year tho so it is nothing new)).

Currently, I mainly have smaller stuff that I can move with my Pickup and trailer (like my
Ford 8n with all attachments or Allmand Backhoe or Gehl 4400 skid steer).....I do have a Case 680E That I actually had moved once for me to dig a septic for somebody...Mostly small stuff for smaller jobs...

Any loader I am thinking of getting would definitely NOT be something I could move myself until I get a Dump Truck and Trailer (I know about the CDL thing and actually had a CDL learners but since the truck deal I had before went sour I never got the full blown CDL).

After hearing all the plusses and minuses of equipment so far I hate to admit it but I am leaning towards something..... BIG ;-).....Ironically from the cost standpoint....The big stuff I have found is way cheaper... machine for machine and condition for condition than the the smaller stuff.....While I realize fuel may be an issue on the bigger stuff I hope to offset that by burning WMO like I do in my diesel Pickups...

I am going to horrify myself here in a bit and try calling the local Cat dealer and see what undercarriage parts cost for the 977 K or 963.....Man I hope I hit the lottery!

Andrew

Of course I may try the low $$ aproach for a bit and see how the ol 680E and 8N does against the growth....

PS - Assuming I might go down in size a tad...Is the 955 significantly less able in terms of brute ability?....I have read here that some hydro machines are not nearly as powerful as a lesser manual tranny machine?....How does the 955 do VS say a 953...or 943 They seem fairly similar?

I did notice the price differential your talking about. Just for kicks i was looking at some comparable 953/963 and the 963s came up cheaper most of the time.

If set on going big i would suggest a 963/755 b/c of the more manageable weight. With an operating weight around 25t it's too heavy for dump/tag. Without a dump that is not much of an issue, but some else will be able to move it with a lowboy reasonably. They probably wouldn't charge much more than to move a 953/943, so not much lost there.

As mentioned earlier, the lighter weight will make it easier to get unstuck, and you probably will get stuck atleast once. Also a lot of parts are gonna be cheaper than their 973 counterparts, just b/c of sheer size differences. U/C hydraulic cylinders, engine, and drive components.

If you get a trackie without rippers you might look in to a winch for it. A friend of mine use a hydo winch to self-extract and to skid high value logs out when he does land clearing jobs. They aren't cheap, but are quite handy if you see yourself doing much of that.

Don't get me wrong, if i found a deal on 973 setup right i would seriously consider it, but i would be hard pressed to justify my extra cost of ownership.
Your mileage may vary.

IMO, you are better off paying more for a machine in good condition. A low priced machine that will soon need work is no bargain. It certainly won't seem like a bargain when it's sitting there needing twenty thousand in repairs.

I really like the 955 traxcavators. They are tough and versatile machines. I sold my two 955K machines about fifteen years ago. One was tight and in great condition, while the other one had a lot more wear. It still would do the job, but was not nearly as much fun to operate as the machine in better condition. The 955s are great for digging basements and holes like that; they will go straight up a basement wall with a full bucket of dirt. Around here at least, excavators have taken nearly all the hole digging jobs, and newer traxcavators are rare.

Based on my experience, a good 955 won't need much maintenance or adjustment. Unless parts are worn out, adjustments are not difficult. The 955 will do almost anything that you ask of it, as long as the ground is not too soft. They have a narrow track and aren't good in wet conditions. If you have wet conditions, you will need to learn tricks like chaining logs to the tracks or have a neighbor with a D7 to pull you out.

I ran a 977 a little and know that they will do a lot more work than a smaller machine in the same time. Like the 955s, the 977s are cheap to buy, and if you can find a good one, it might be the machine for you.

One question I have is why you want a track loader instead of a track dozer? Most people around here that want to clear land use dozers. They have wider pads, a wide blade instead of a narrow bucket, much better traction, and can clear a lot more land in the same time. On the other hand, it's tough to load trucks or dig basements with a dozer.

Mmmmm 973's they are a sexy beast in any environment. But they do have their downfalls.....

As CM stated he is looking for a U/C for his 53 and coming in at almost 7k is cheap for a 73. The track loader I had most of this season just got an undercarriage. It got a complete job and came in at almost 20k, and all work was done in house. They also like fuel... and lots of it. I was burning on average around 130 gallons a day and as high as 170 gallons a day workin her hard. They also don't like contaminents in the hydrostat system. My old loader has been in for a new pump drive and drive motors every 1300hrs for the last few years. The other loaders Sureway has seem to do better, but there are 2 machines that are brutal on pump drives. The 953 and 963 are just as capable in most respects to the 73. I have had a lot of seat time in all 3. I like the 53 because it seems more like a sports car, the 63 has more grunt and still quite nimble.... the 73.... She's a friggin beast.

A track loader does sound like the right machine though. Some guys like dozers for everything, but once you spend some time getting intimate with a track loader you can find a way to do everything with one. I like being able to carry stuff with me, and using your teeth level the ground in front of you leaves an awesome finish without packing the ground too much, using the bucket flat leaves a great finish and will pack the ground a bit to leave a solid base. All the twisting and turning you can do with a track loader also helps with leaving a nice base. You can do a lot of work in a day with a track loader. I'd like to see anyone keep up to a 973 in almost any application with a D7. Heck... they are even great for pushing scrapers if you get the desire to do so.

:IMO:usago with the 977

HI,

Thanks for the continued input.....I was thinking a loader would be better for clearing land because everybody I have ever seen clearing land uses one.....Simply break the roots as necessary and the height of the loader bucket can easily leverage against the tree to topple it....

As of right now I am kinda leaning towards the 977 just because it'll be less than a third of the price of the 973 BUT I'd sure like the hydro from a maintenance and perceived ease of use standpoints....I am not 100% sure that is fair to say BUT I know hydro lawn equipment is far easier to maintain and use than belt drives....I'd imagine the same is true for larger equipment as well...

Decisions decisions.....why can't I just win the lottery? HA

Andrew

PS - Do people here burn WMO in their equipment like some diesel truck owners do in their trucks to save $$?