D4d blade width

Hey gang,

I just bought (for a song) a 1962 D4d. i got it mostly for moving snow. i live up in the cascade mtns in washington with a mile long driveway with 5 switchbacks. some years I can just get by with a truck-mounted snow plow...other years, like this one, I need something bigger and this dozer will do the trick, especially since it has a 12 ft manual angle blade off a D6.

I would also like to use it for digging and moving some dirt occasionally. will this 12 ft blade be too wide for this machine in terms of horsepower? And, if it is really too big, what size should I be looking for? 8 ft?

thanks for any help.
~martin

An angle blade will naturally be slightly wider than a straight blade so it can pivot to 45 degrees - I think our D4 angle blade is 10 feet. I'll have to go back and stretch a tape measure.

A 12ft blade is probably okay for snow clearing on that little guy. For dirt you will like have to widdle away at it so you don't spin out.

I use a D6D with an angle blade to clear our driveway. Expect a little bit of side push when pushing snow, and ice cleats on the grousers make a world of difference in stability!

IIRC an 8ft blade would be a bull (straight) blade which requires a different blade frame. If you got one to to fit on the angle blade frame on the angle I doubt the end tips would be outside the tracks. This then would chop the shyt out the track chains and rollers because they wouldn't be sitting flat.

will this 12 ft blade be too wide for this machine in terms of horsepower?

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The straight answer is, Yes. But more importantly, too wide/too large a blade is going to make the tractor pull too much to either side, because of the additional cutting edge leverage, any time you're dozing any amount of dirt.

Why wouldn't you simply look for the correct blade for it?

In the photos below are the specifications for all the Cat dozer blades of the 1950's. I had to split the page scanning, because the original is a centrefold, over 2 pages.
The number is the tractor size, and the letter is either "A" for Angle blade, or "S" for Straight or Bull blade. So a D4 Angle blade is a 4A blade.

Thank you, the scanned table is very helpful... so 9'5" is what i'm looking for if i am going to do much dirt work. The 11'10" on it now is nice for my snow moving.

I am new to this machine and no doubt will have more questions for you folks once winter is over. Thanks for the help.
Here's a couple of pictures

I want a dirt blade just wide enough to see the bottom corners from the seat.
Plowing snow on frozen ground I'd say 12 feet is good. On non frozen ground a dozer blade is not a good choice. It'll scalp something awful.
If there is any plowing on non frozen you need shoes. I'd opt for 8" squares supported each corner & center of the blade 1/4" below the cutting edge parallel with the ground.
If you are a fabricator, consider a Frink style mechanism where a larger blade sits in front of the dozer blade. It rides on two curved tracks so hitting an obstruction lifts the blade to ride over it. Still want shoes to prevent digging.

Keep your caulks fresh. The bumps on the grousers are to prevent the 12 ton hockey puck from sliding sideways on ice. Yours look pretty worn.

Thanks for the info. Fortunately, it'll always be frozen ground. I keep my mile of road plowed with a 69 IH Scout. But, when the berms get to wide and high, I will use the Cat to widen things up. I have been using an Oliver Cletrac OC-3 for a bunch of years to push the berm but, wow, is that tedious work. I used the D4 for the first time last week. set the blade at angle and pushed those 3 ft high berms out easy as pie. One pass down and back up, 2 hours instead of a full day.

When you say to keep the caulks fresh, do you mean to build them up or sharpen the corners? Im familiar with the sideways slide on ice...slow-motion scary.

Martin Fleming said:

When you say to keep the caulks fresh, do you mean to build them up or sharpen the corners? Im familiar with the sideways slide on ice...slow-motion scary.

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Build them up. Sharpening them just makes them wear out faster.

Martin Fleming said:

Thanks for the info. Fortunately, it'll always be frozen ground. I keep my mile of road plowed with a 69 IH Scout. But, when the berms get to wide and high, I will use the Cat to widen things up. I have been using an Oliver Cletrac OC-3 for a bunch of years to push the berm but, wow, is that tedious work. I used the D4 for the first time last week. set the blade at angle and pushed those 3 ft high berms out easy as pie. One pass down and back up, 2 hours instead of a full day.

When you say to keep the caulks fresh, do you mean to build them up or sharpen the corners? Im familiar with the sideways slide on ice...slow-motion scary.

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I'd choose to burn them off with acetylene or propane & oxygen torch or a big plasma machine. Best to cut at angle from each side leaving the grouser top a bit pointed. Grouser stock is available here in 12' lengths, in several sizes. Use an open root by placing a V bent from 3/32" welding rod. I would choose 1/8" 7018, or better still, Dual shield wire.
I just bought a Millermatic 255 wire machine with pulse. I might try pulse spray. I like a 70,000 PSI tensile filler as it destresses through stretch. Higher tensile wire is more likely to tear loose as it cools.

Hey Willie,
Beginner question...Why would I cut them off first rather than just add on? Is it to get a proper V angle to weld new metal on to? I've got a midsize mig, but was thinking to use my old-school big 300 amp Hobart and 7018.
And how far should new caulks stick out? Mine project about an inch above the grouser ridges.

Martin Fleming said:

Hey Willie,
Beginner question...Why would I cut them off first rather than just add on? Is it to get a proper V angle to weld new metal on to? I've got a midsize mig, but was thinking to use my old-school big 300 amp Hobart and 7018.
And how far should new caulks stick out? Mine project about an inch above the grouser ridges.

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Depending how they are welded on.
Some weld caulks on without a gap between caulk & grouser makes it near impossible to get a full penetration weld. If they did use open root welding they likely did get a full pen weld. If full penetration, & you do still have 1" height on the caulks, you could cut the ends square again with a cutting torch.
If you don't have a full penetration weld cutting exposes the gap & they are prone to breaking the weld a little at a time from each end.

Dura-tuff is one of the biggest suppliers of grouser bar out there. Take a look at their web site there are lots of illustrated procedures for prepping and welding on grousers.

https://www.duratuff.com/

Martin Fleming said:

And how far should new caulks stick out? Mine project about an inch above the grouser ridges.

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I'd be curious about this question as well, but I think an inch is okay depending on the terrain you are on.

Nige said:

Dura-tuff is one of the biggest suppliers of grouser bar out there. Take a look at their web site there are lots of illustrated procedures for prepping and welding on grousers.

https://www.duratuff.com/

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Thanks, I'll dig into that web site.

Just in for lunch as I'm busy digging into this today: 12" of the heaviest, sleet/snow. My plow truck would get beat up so bad trying to move it, so out comes my new dozer to get this mile of road opened back up.

Martin Fleming said:

Thanks, I'll dig into that web site.

Just in for lunch as I'm busy digging into this today: 12" of the heaviest, sleet/snow. My plow truck would get beat up so bad trying to move it, so out comes my new dozer to get this mile of road opened back up.
View attachment 277214

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Lookin good!

Our driveway is a bit shorter (maybe 500 meters or a third of a mile), but once we started using our D6D, we started clearing our driveway just about exclusively with it. We used a Case 580B previously, but found the angle blade sped the job up so much we just use the backhoe for more precision clearing around the house. Very likely using less fuel too despite the bigger motor!

What we do the prevent scalping the ground, is we keep the blade up about an inch from the ground for the first plow of the season. Once the gravel is frozen, which usually happens after a week or so below freezing, you can put the blade on float and putt along.

Two passes are all that's needed, unless you are clearing out a pullout.

Good info, thanks. How much snow do you typically get? We're just really getting hammered this year up here in the cascades.

Now a snow/grouser question for everyone: I noticed this afternoon that sometimes as im going along down the road that if I have a big push in front of me I occasionally get this hopping feeling on one trackside or the other. Not real strong and loud like bull teeth stripping thru the chain with front spring popping, but softer like going over bumps or somesuch.

As it was happening, I could id it on the right track and I watched close. It wasn't big snow packs stuck to the grousers either. After going a few more feet, I stopped and got off to investigate. It appears, from looking at the track patterns in the snow/ice, that the grousers are slipping and then biting enough to catch.

The two pics below show the right track (which was the one doing the bumping) and caulk slips in the ice.

Then the other pic, of the left side, shows no slipping and that it was in deeper snow so a better grip.

This isn't all that big of a deal, but I don't want to incorrectly diagnose what is going on when that bumping happens.

I've also added a closer pic of the caulk to show how they are, indeed, getting worn.

Are the chains packed full of snow under the track shoes by any chance.?
Normally for working in those type of conditions the appropriate type of shoe in one with trapezoidal holes to allow the packed snow to be extruded through the hole by the sprocket teeth.

Sorry, Nige, I should have mentioned that. Yep, there are holes cut.

Puffie40 said:

I'd be curious about this question as well, but I think an inch is okay depending on the terrain you are on.

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Just enough to prevent side slide.
Look at the wrecked dozers at the bottom of a mountain, you want more than that.
I feel most I've seen start 1-1/2" above the grousers. They wear down from that.

All I've seen you cut high manganese grouser stock 1/4 the width of the grouser. IE a 16" grouser gets 4" caulks. one four inch caulk is placed center of the grouser. Next grouser gets two. each an inch from the end of the grouser. leaving 10" gap between.

Nige said:

Are the chains packed full of snow under the track shoes by any chance.?
Normally for working in those type of conditions the appropriate type of shoe in one with trapezoidal holes to allow the packed snow to be extruded through the hole by the sprocket teeth.

View attachment 277229

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A fellow north of me has the same Dresser dozer as mine, I forget serial numbers a couple hundred apart. His chains & shoes are new, maybe 200 hours on them. His have the snow holes. He reports a lot of snapping as the gullets of the drive sprocket fill with super compacted snow & no longer does pitch of sprocket & chain agree.
Mine are half worn without snow holes, I've never had snapping no matter the snow. More wear, looser running chains, I can't say.
Snow temperature might factor. Compress snow hard enough it warms to somewhat liquify, then chills to hard ice. Might find loosening the tension a bit will help. Warmer snow will extrude through the snow holes.