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Recommendations for "New" Used Crane

wpchrist

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2022
Messages
14
Location
South Carolina
Hello,

New member here.

We are looking to possibly purchase a new-to-us crane for our boatyard and are interested in recommendations from the people that know cranes. We only have one crane and it is instrumental to our business. When the crane goes down, we pretty much shut down, so we need something 1) reliable, 2) easy to get parts for, 3) easy to find a qualified technician to do the repairs 4) hopefully reasonably priced

We're interested in a crawler crane with a lattice boom. The crane will just sit in one place and lift or launch boats into and out of the water. Need 1) about 150' of boom - no jib necessary, 2) around 90,000lbs capacity at 45' radius.

Air conditioning and heat would be nice but not a deal breaker.

Have looked at a Liebherr LR1160 - that seems to fit the bill pretty well. Liebherr was a brand recommendation from a tech that came to service our Grove 5175 a few weeks back.

Any recommendations for good brands, models, etc would be much appreciated. I realize this might be as unending as the Ford vs Chevy debate, but am interested hearing opinions.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hopefully I didn't leave out any important info. If so, let me know and I'll be glad to provide.
 

CraneMechanic73

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
73
Location
Georgia
Partial to Liebherr. No one comes close to their product support. I just glanced the main boom chart on the LR1160. Looks like your tech right about what model/tonnage you need to be looking into.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,273
Location
sw missouri
I am a fan also of liebherr's equipment, but there's a price attached to their way of doing things.

Liebherr has techs, but in my experience, prefers to have customer fix the problem with their phone support. They don't have dealers all over the country, so generally they fly or drive in a tech if you can't fix the problem. I prefer that kind of support, but some customers just want to call someone to come fix it.

What kind of a price range are you looking at spending? That and what's available, and how soon you need it, will probably determine more what you end up purchasing. How "used" of a piece of equipment do you want? 10 years old? 20 years old? 40 years old? What do you want to spend? $500,000? $750,000, 1.5 million?

A 5175 grove is a good machine, but a AT hydro probably isn't the best choice for a machine that never moves from one spot. Keeping all the tires/ suspension off the ground and the outriggers up, not to mention a telescoping boom that you don't need.

I think a 888, or 999 manitowoc or a 2250 would work, and you would have the Grove/ manitowoc support system. A link belt 278 or so would also fit the bill. With the corresponding link belt dealer network. Liebherr is the cadillac with the corresponding price.
 

Nige

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28,973
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Liebherr is the cadillac with the corresponding price.
I'd say Liebherr is the Mercedes Benz/Rolls Royce of the crane market rather than a Cadillac.

I agree with CO, especially when you consider the location where the crane will operate. IMO an environment full of salt is the last place you want to operate a machine crammed full of electronics. Based on what I've seen of electronics on Liebherr AT cranes I assume their crawlers are similar.

Also consider the OP's requirement "easy to find a qualified technician to do the repairs". So something from the Manitowoc line allied with the Grove/Manitowoc Group tech support system would appear to fit in better with the customer's requirements than having to do the repairs themsleves with phone support from the manufacturer. They are a boat yard not crane mechanics.
 

wpchrist

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2022
Messages
14
Location
South Carolina
Thanks Crane Operator and Nige.

we aren't in the market for a Cadillac, Mercedes, or Rolls. The Grove we own is a workhorse more along the lines of a pickup truck than a Caddy.

I'd like to stay around $300,000 if I can a good piece of equipment in that range. I am willing to go up if it's necessary. If i have to spend more, $500k is going to be tough to swallow but probably doable. I'm not overly concerned about the age of the crane as long as someone who knows can assure me it still has a long, reliable life ahead of it. I tend to think hours and past duties are more important than age, but I may be wrong. For example, my 1996 GMK 5175 would be fine if it were more reliable, easier to fix, and there were technicians near me. I currently have a hard time finding parts or techs for it. Yet, I see you both recommend the Manitowocs in large part because of the Grove/Manitowoc Group tech support system. If i have a Grove already, shouldn't that support system benefit me? Is my crane just too old? Is it normal to have a tech drive four hours one way to service my crane? I'm a little concerned about buying a crane of the same brand (Manitowoc/Grove) and running into the same service/parts problems.

Don't get me wrong. We aren't scared of servicing our equipment. If given a decent service manual we are able to do some repairs ourselves, but Nige is right when he says we're a boatyard. we make our money hauling, fixing, and storing boats. At some point there's a diminishing return when we're working on the crane instead of moving boats.

I have had another source recommend Kobelco, Terex, and - like you guys did - the Link Belts. I have to say I like the idea of a crane from an American owned company (even though from my understanding the 200 ton Link Belts are farmed out to be built by a Japanese company). Any opinions on the Kobelco and Terex?

I'm also wondering how much it's going to cost to ship the crane to me. The Grove was already here when i bought the business so I've never had to ship a crane before. Too bad I can't buy it with my Amazon Prime account :)
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,273
Location
sw missouri
I wouldn't pay a tech to come service my crane, but I'm in the crane business. A 5175 isn't terribly old, but its old by AT standards. If its a krupp, and some of the early gmk's, there aren't any manuals, and the parts book was in german. They are actually pretty simple compared to the newer AT's, they just don't cover them in any training anymore, and some of the LMI stuff is getting hard to find.

Link belt is owned by sumitomo - a japanese company, privately held. But based in kentucky.

Manitowoc is publicly traded, so its owned worldwide, but based in the states

Liebherr is family owned, so also private. Based in Germany.

Terex is no more, so don't even go there in buying a crane. Parts weren't easy to get for terex when they were in business.

I don't know anything about kobelco's.

4 hours away for a tech- is about as close as anything/ anyone will be if you aren't in a major area, no matter what manufacturer you buy from. Think of your crane as being a MRI machine at a hospital. About every town has one, but there aren't enough in town that it justifies having a technician in every town for them. Its not like cars or lawnmowers that are in everyone's garage.

I think you should be able to get a crane shipped to you for 20-$40,000, depending how far away it is. Your looking at 10+ truckloads at 2,000 each depending on how far away the crane is. You'll have a oversize load or two which will be more $$$$.

If the crane is going to be stationary, have you considered a ringer instead of crawler? Basically the crane sets on pedestals rather than on crawler tracks.

To get a feel for what you are shopping for, hop on crane trader, and chose crawler cranes and 200-300 tons. You can set search parameters- chose USA and under price points and a year range, and you should get a feel for what's available in your price range. A lot of the places don't have prices listed, so you're going to have to do some calling.

If you are getting by with a 5175, any lattice 200-300 ton crane is going to have a lot more capacity.

The advantage to a link belt or manitowoc, is that there are simply a lot more of them around, which means there's more guys who have run one, and worked on one, and more parts around. Liebherr has never let me down for getting me parts, but they aren't cheap. And a lot of their stuff is liebherr specific, such as their engines which are liebherr only, where most everyone else uses cummins/ isuzu or such.

I think I would be looking at late 90's to mid 2000 link belt or manitowoc. 200-300 ton on the east coast. Any newer is going to be out of your price range, a lot older and you'll end up in friction crane territory, which are bone simple and last forever, but there are fewer and fewer operators for them.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,273
Location
sw missouri
I just reread your post- your 1996 gmk is just from after grove bought krupp, the german manufacturer and designer of your 5175. Its from the bad days of not very helpful books or wiring diagrams with lots of german in them.

There's still a market for your gmk though- selling it would add some $$$ to getting a lattice crane.
 

wpchrist

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2022
Messages
14
Location
South Carolina
@crane operator: Lots of good info in your last 2 posts. Thanks.

so, Terex is out, and it sounds like the easier to maintain and obtain parts for Manitowoc/groves are a little newer than mine. We have the full set of manuals, but you're sure right about the manuals and schematics being not helpful and mostly in German.

I've been hunting on crane trader, machinerytrader, and anywhere else i can find cranes for sale. The info I've received on this forum is helping me weed out cranes that probably won't work for us, or are less reliable. It's a little annoying when a crane i might be interested in has "call for price" in the ad. End up with a salesman and a 30 minute conversation about a crane out of my price range anyways (who knew a 2022 crane was so darn expensive ;))? All joking aside some salesman have a lot of knowledge they're willing to share, which is helpful.

I've looked at a lot of load charts since starting my search. Most 250 ton cranes I looked at have significantly higher capacities at the boom length and radius I need. I'll end up limited by my other equipment instead of the crane> That's where I'd rather be. Then when it's time to replace the other equipment i can replace with higher capacities there and keep on growin'. Already have a fifty ton hydraulic yard trailer under construction so when that gets here in April I can raise my max vessel weight for a haul out. I'm pretty conservative though. I advertise 60k Lbs as the max event though the chart has me at 89k lbs at that radius. I leave 7k for lifting gear and the rest for customers underestimating the weight of their boat. They know if the boat's too heavy I'm putting it back down and they still have to pay, but i don't want to do that to a customer so I leave a little max lift room that they don't know about...just in case.

I had one salesman tell me i could get around $250k for my crane in South America or somewhere else out of country, and had another offer me around $100k on a trade in for 2001 Liebherr. My plan is to negotiate a one-and-done purchase where the seller takes mine on trade where the new crane shows up and my old one leaves simultaneously. I don't have the footprint to store my old crane and a new one so it's better if it all happens at the same time.
I'm going to do some research on a ringer or, as Nige suggested, a fixed derrick crane.

Hopefully I can get this all sorted out and get the new crane here by the end of December. We shut down for two weeks then and that would be a great time to trade out the two cranes.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
I would stick with manitowoc due to the Cummins engine. It’s pretty easy to find a Cummins tech if you’re having engine trouble. Another factor to consider is if you buy from someone that only has one 888 or 999 they’re gonna want to sell everything that comes with the crane. If they have 240’ of boom and an 80’ jib they won’t want to sell the crane with only 160’ boom and no jib so you’ll end up with a lot of stuff you don’t need.

If you buy from a bigger company odds are you’ll be able to buy only the amount of boom you need. They’ll have other cranes that same model they can use the extra boom on.

Like crane op said your gmk5175 is the Krupp 5175. There never were many of those to begin with and they’re getting pretty old for AT cranes. The manitowocs are still pretty similar to what they were 20 yrs ago. Manitowoc started using the epic controls in the 90s and they still have the epic system now. There are some differences but if you can work on a modern epic system, you can work on one 20yrs old. That’s not the the case with the eks system and the newer ekos. Parts are getting hard to get.

Were I in your shoes I would try to find a 999 with 200’ of boom. That way you only have one extra 40’ section of boom you could probably sell. The 9’s are still in production so parts will be available for a long time. That’s gonna be way more crane then you need but overkill is underrated sometimes. If you can’t find a 9 in your budget, the 8 would do fine. They’re getting a little older but they share a lot of parts/similarities with a 9 so parts won’t be an issue. A 777 would be my third choice. Epic controls like everything else. The 7 used hyd cylinders on the mast for boom up and down instead of the cables and a lot of guys didn’t really like that. I like the boom cables myself.

Kobelco makes a darn good crane but they’re all Japanese so to me they’re not as easy to work on as a manitowoc. The Japanese machines use Japanese jic on all the fittings so hyd hoses are a little harder to find. It’s not impossible but not as common. Manitowoc uses flat face o’ring fittings which almost any hydraulic shop will have.

I’m not that big on link-belt because if I’m gonna have the headaches of a foreign machine I’m getting a kobelco, which I think are better cranes.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,273
Location
sw missouri
I had one salesman tell me i could get around $250k for my crane in South America or somewhere else out of country, and had another offer me around $100k on a trade in for 2001 Liebherr.

I don't see you getting $250,000 out of your GMK. And yes, the best market for it is out of the country, mexico, south america or africa. They prefer less electronics. I think its worth closer to $150,000.

A ringer is basically a fixed base instead of tracks, it means you would have to have another crane in there to build it, and you can't move it at all, its "permanent".

If you end up with extra boom, you could just store it in a corner of the yard, or sell it. Having a extra section isn't a bad thing, just in case someone gets a little wild with the block and you get a damaged lattice chord.
 

wpchrist

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2022
Messages
14
Location
South Carolina
I really appreciate you guys taking your time to help me out.

I would stick with manitowoc due to the Cummins engine. It’s pretty easy to find a Cummins tech if you’re having engine trouble. Another factor to consider is if you buy from someone that only has one 888 or 999 they’re gonna want to sell everything that comes with the crane. If they have 240’ of boom and an 80’ jib they won’t want to sell the crane with only 160’ boom and no jib so you’ll end up with a lot of stuff you don’t need.

If you buy from a bigger company odds are you’ll be able to buy only the amount of boom you need. They’ll have other cranes that same model they can use the extra boom on.

Like crane op said your gmk5175 is the Krupp 5175. There never were many of those to begin with and they’re getting pretty old for AT cranes. The manitowocs are still pretty similar to what they were 20 yrs ago. Manitowoc started using the epic controls in the 90s and they still have the epic system now. There are some differences but if you can work on a modern epic system, you can work on one 20yrs old. That’s not the the case with the eks system and the newer ekos. Parts are getting hard to get.

Were I in your shoes I would try to find a 999 with 200’ of boom. That way you only have one extra 40’ section of boom you could probably sell. The 9’s are still in production so parts will be available for a long time. That’s gonna be way more crane then you need but overkill is underrated sometimes. If you can’t find a 9 in your budget, the 8 would do fine. They’re getting a little older but they share a lot of parts/similarities with a 9 so parts won’t be an issue. A 777 would be my third choice. Epic controls like everything else. The 7 used hyd cylinders on the mast for boom up and down instead of the cables and a lot of guys didn’t really like that. I like the boom cables myself.

Kobelco makes a darn good crane but they’re all Japanese so to me they’re not as easy to work on as a manitowoc. The Japanese machines use Japanese jic on all the fittings so hyd hoses are a little harder to find. It’s not impossible but not as common. Manitowoc uses flat face o’ring fittings which almost any hydraulic shop will have.

I’m not that big on link-belt because if I’m gonna have the headaches of a foreign machine I’m getting a kobelco, which I think are better cranes.

Thanks Knepptune.

Another reason to go with the Cummins is that they are in a lot of boats. So, we know our way around them a little and we have contractors in the yard every day that know them front to back.

I already had one salesman at a crane company offer to drop the price $50k since i didn't need the jib. Having an extra section of lattice would be ok. I've got a little corner to store that (where my jib is now).

The epic controls must have started after '96. Wish my crane would have had those instead of the EKS.

The same guy that told me to ask for $250k for my crane in S. America suggested a 7. I looked at a few and thought if I went that route I would go with at least an 8. I'll look at some 8's and 9's. I think the 9's are gonna be out of my price range though. I'm all about extra capacity. It's like extra horsepower or torque...you rarely use it but it's usually critical when you do.

I don't see you getting $250,000 out of your GMK. And yes, the best market for it is out of the country, mexico, south america or africa. They prefer less electronics. I think its worth closer to $150,000.

A ringer is basically a fixed base instead of tracks, it means you would have to have another crane in there to build it, and you can't move it at all, its "permanent".

If you end up with extra boom, you could just store it in a corner of the yard, or sell it. Having a extra section isn't a bad thing, just in case someone gets a little wild with the block and you get a damaged lattice chord.

If I find the right crane in my price range and they offer me $150k on a trade in for my Grove, I'm happy.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
The epic controls are manitowoc crawlers.

gmk went from eks to ekos. Gmk is now CCS controls. Manitowoc just released a bunch of new crawler models to start phasing out the epic machines. The 9s are still in production but I would guess their yrs are limited.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,273
Location
sw missouri
If its a online listing, just put a link on here to the listing, someone may spot something in the pictures to help out. I doubt there's anyone reading here who is going to try to get it away from you.

That said, if its two stroke, make sure you are willing to work on two stroke, and listen to a two stroke. It wouldn't be my first choice.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,273
Location
sw missouri
Not a detroit engine, looks like big cam cummins to me. Dallas is a good location to purchase from, north far enough that it didn't have gulf salt, south far enough it didn't get covered with road salt hauling it around. There's very little chance that it only has 5,000 hours on it.

The Load moment system is a LSI. LSI systems is now owned by trimble, I've had a couple of their systems and wasn't a big fan, but they might be better now that they are owned by trimble. I'd be interested to know what all the system on that crane is monitoring. Whether its full function, or just gives you a weight and boom angle and you calculate the rest from a load chart.
 
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