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Guess I should Have Locked It Out!

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
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28,973
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Long before LOTO my late grandfather had a saying - "before engaging spanners, engage brain".

It's funny but if you put the question to a group of people in any type of safety training course (where their minds ought to be somewhat focused) and ask them what's the most important piece of PPE anyone can have on a job, nobody ever answers "the human brain". You just have to be constantly aware of what could go wrong if whatever you're trying to do goes pear-shaped, and why working distracted for whatever reason makes you doubly dangerous to both yourself and those who might be around you.
 

mitch504

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
5,776
Location
Andrews SC
Years ago, my brother and I worked in the shop for the same big trucking Co. A driver came in with an internal air leak in the transmission, and my brother started to check it out. He reached in to see which cylinder was leaking, and the driver went and got another mechanic, ( a high school classmate of my brother's), thinking it would go faster with 2 working on it. The other guy got in the cab and flipped the switch, cutting two of my brother's fingers off clean.

Our whole lives, my brother has thought, "it won't happen to me"; and I have thought, "if it's gonna happen to somebody, it'll probably be me". We still think that way, despite his having racked up more injuries than me;).
 

JD955SC

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
1,349
Location
The South
LOTO is quite worthless in my experience

why? Because no one respects the tag out part. I’ve had many a time where a truck driver comes in to hand me a tag that they cut off the machine they were picking up. If they had the least little respect for it they would come to me before starting the machine and verify whether I had simply forgotten to remove it or it was still under repair.

The other problem with LOTO is that they tell us either the master switch has to be off or a battery cable disconnected and padlocked. Sounds great until you are doing troubleshooting or repairs that require the power to be own and/or engine running. WTF am I supposed to do, run back and forth every five minutes deenergizing the machine in between testing and fixing wires or attaching and disconnecting test hoses?!? Also most master switches still don’t have the capability to be physically locked out which is entirely stupid on the engineers part. Just taking the key out isn’t enough IMHO

And a tag doesn’t fix stupid idiots who’d drive off with half the interior torn apart, or a chain wrapped around the steering wheel as per the OPs case.

You want a LOTO program that does more than check off the insurance company’s box then it has to be real and tailored to being a mechanic.
 

Nige

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Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28,973
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
You want a LOTO program that does more than check off the insurance company’s box then it has to be real and tailored to being a mechanic.
You wouldn’t have disliked working with our LOTO then, because there was a system built into it to allow live testing - anything from a simple power on to allow you to connect ET or check wiring with power on, to full performance testing for pressures, cycle times, or whatever. In its simplest form it is Red Tensor barriers (think airport checkin) around the machine with a “Live Testing in Progress. Do not Enter” sign at the access point.

IMHO there’s a big difference between a LOTO system designed as a tick box exercise (as yours appears to be, and believe me I feel your pain) to one that is designed as an attempt to keep people safe while at the same time letting them get on with their work.
 

JD955SC

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Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
1,349
Location
The South
You wouldn’t have disliked working with our LOTO then, because there was a system built into it to allow live testing - anything from a simple power on to allow you to connect ET or check wiring with power on, to full performance testing for pressures, cycle times, or whatever. In its simplest form it is Red Tensor barriers (think airport checkin) around the machine with a “Live Testing in Progress. Do not Enter” sign at the access point.

IMHO there’s a big difference between a LOTO system designed as a tick box exercise (as yours appears to be, and believe me I feel your pain) to one that is designed as an attempt to keep people safe while at the same time letting them get on with their work.

Your safety people are realists mine are idiots with zero experience in the industry who tell us stupid stuff such as “tie off at 4 feet” when the reel pack or lanyard won’t be effective until about 20 feet…after putting on a fall protection class where they have us calculate our effective drop length.

The only saving grace is they stay mostly at our main branch and I see them once or twice a year.
 
Last edited:

JLarson

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
656
Location
AZ
Occupation
Owner- civil and heavy repair/fab company
We have a few steering wheel lockout covers. I've got kits in the trucks and extra in our job trailer. Some places are no loto kit=no work
 

Camshawn

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
585
Location
Langley BC
Occupation
retired
My standpoint is my lock is protecting my life. If someone removes or otherwise screws with my lockout, they are try to kill me and will be treated as such. Our lockout system was built by trades and ops and signed off by corporate safety. It had provisions for troubleshooting using ppe and control measures like control zones. Never had a problem with my lockout being defeated but we did have lots of “educational opportunities “ with people who just didn’t grasp the concept. Cam
 

John C.

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Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
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Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
Went to look at a big dozer this week. Had a lock out tag on the transmission lever that had the mechanics name and phone number on it. Called him up and he sounded surprised. Told him why I was there and asked permission to start and operate the machine. He told me he was expecting my call. Only had the tag out on the lever to keep the curious at bay until the machine got moved off site after my inspection.
 

Willie B

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Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,039
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
My standpoint is my lock is protecting my life. If someone removes or otherwise screws with my lockout, they are try to kill me and will be treated as such. Our lockout system was built by trades and ops and signed off by corporate safety. It had provisions for troubleshooting using ppe and control measures like control zones. Never had a problem with my lockout being defeated but we did have lots of “educational opportunities “ with people who just didn’t grasp the concept. Cam
Lockout devices have 6 spaces for 6 individuals. If 6 people working, should have as many padlocks. Last person to complete removes the device.
I get the argument constantly, "lockouts are only for electrical work." I am amazed there are as many idiots with two arms as there are.
 

digger doug

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Nov 2, 2011
Messages
1,369
Location
NW Pennsylvania
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Thrash-A-Matic designer
Lockout devices have 6 spaces for 6 individuals. If 6 people working, should have as many padlocks. Last person to complete removes the device.
I get the argument constantly, "lockouts are only for electrical work." I am amazed there are as many idiots with two arms as there are.
"Group LoTo"
And then you work on complicated machinery requiring several locks, and multiple workers. They have these metal boxes (look like an ammo box) with holes thru the corners for each member's locks. Inside is the special lock's keys just for that machinery.
 

92U 3406

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Jan 3, 2017
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Western Canuckistan
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Wrench Bender
We did a shovel teardown one time. I think we had about 5 or 6 sets of scissors with 5 locks each hanging off the main disconnect.
 

donkey doctor

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May 18, 2010
Messages
425
Location
Ladysmith bc canada
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retired
Not just electrical work. One of our guys was trouble shooting a problem on a new hydraulic log loader in the yard outside the plant. I wasn't there so I'm not sure what hose he had off but it was probably the 2 inch discharge hose on the main pump. Because he was right there until he wasn't he didn't have it tagged. Went in the shop to grab something from his tool box and along comes someone from engineering wanting to check something. Flashes it up and almost instantly there is about 2 barrels of hydraulic oil on the concrete. Didn't do any damage but took a lot of zorb-all to clean it up. d.d.
 

digger doug

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Nov 2, 2011
Messages
1,369
Location
NW Pennsylvania
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Thrash-A-Matic designer
Not just electrical work. One of our guys was trouble shooting a problem on a new hydraulic log loader in the yard outside the plant. I wasn't there so I'm not sure what hose he had off but it was probably the 2 inch discharge hose on the main pump. Because he was right there until he wasn't he didn't have it tagged. Went in the shop to grab something from his tool box and along comes someone from engineering wanting to check something. Flashes it up and almost instantly there is about 2 barrels of hydraulic oil on the concrete. Didn't do any damage but took a lot of zorb-all to clean it up. d.d.
The person that started the equipment should get qty (1) week off unpaid.
 

digger doug

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Nov 2, 2011
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1,369
Location
NW Pennsylvania
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Thrash-A-Matic designer
My standpoint is my lock is protecting my life. If someone removes or otherwise screws with my lockout, they are try to kill me and will be treated as such. Our lockout system was built by trades and ops and signed off by corporate safety. It had provisions for troubleshooting using ppe and control measures like control zones. Never had a problem with my lockout being defeated but we did have lots of “educational opportunities “ with people who just didn’t grasp the concept. Cam
Yup, negating/removing/ignoring a LOTO lot should be at minimum (if no-one got harmed) qty (1) week off unpaid.
That will get people's attention, and then after a year or so, removing a tag should be immediate firing.
 

Mark250

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Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
1,243
Location
victoria,Australia
Occupation
heavy equipment technician
a lot of the mining equipment over here has two isolators fitted
one for the start circuit and one for the accessory circuits. in conjunction with lock out procedures allows for live testing of electrical circuits without risk of engine operation
 
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