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Cat d4 basket case

Lumberjack Matt

Lumberjack Matt

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Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
96
Location
Oregon
Sorry it didn't go well. Did you ever crack the engine drain plug to check for water sitting in the bottom?

The transmission fill is at the breather, you put a wrench around the square area and the whole plug backs out, it's like a 2" npt thread.
PXL_20220916_043349746~3.jpg
 
yrens

yrens

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Joined
Jul 22, 2022
Messages
111
Location
minnesota
TomA said:
You probably need to tighten the pony clutch.
Click to expand...
Okay I’ll look into that. I believe there are two adjustments? One with the counter weights, and your suggestion through the front inspection hole correct?
 
yrens

yrens

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Joined
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Messages
111
Location
minnesota
Lumberjack Matt said:
Sorry it didn't go well. Did you ever crack the engine drain plug to check for water sitting in the bottom? Of course makes sense. I been pretty occupied with all the other issues that I never really looked and put much thought into it. Then I looked in my service manual and I don’t believe I can find it anywhere that suggests doing it that way. Thank you!! Anyway all fluids look good. I have yet find water such as you did which is hard to believe. I feel before all went south for my late uncle who’s D4 this was it was in good shape 12 years back. The pony motor compression is excellent and no thrust movement at all in the crankshaft bearings. Maybe yours without a engine cover made this worse? As I stated before the top valve springs look great, and I removed the aft left side crankcase panel and all looks great in the bottom half. Problem lies in the top piston area I’m sure where moisture got in from someone removing the air cleaner other parts for their own purposes. While underneath removing the drain plug for the dry bay clutch there is a plug missing from the fwd flywheel bay? I’m assuming you have one there? I guess I will have to find one at some point if I get this running. Looks to be the same as the others.

The transmission fill is at the breather, you put a wrench around the square area and the whole plug backs out, it's like a 2" npt thread.
View attachment 268523
Click to expand...
 
yrens

yrens

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Messages
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Location
minnesota
Nice picture by the way. Wow I wish the D4 I’m working on was that nice and fancy.
 
Lumberjack Matt

Lumberjack Matt

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Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
96
Location
Oregon
You might want to consider getting a bore scope for the next time you go. You can get one for around $40 that will sync with your phone and it will let you find out if it's a specific cylinder that's stuck or if it's something else completely (timing gears rusted, flywheel stuck, etc). Especially if you are driving two hours each way, it might be worth it to just keep you from potentially barking up the wrong tree as far as diagnosis goes.


The hole at the bottom of precombustion chamber is 0.2", not sure if the cheap ones have that small of a tip.
 
Last edited:
yrens

yrens

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Joined
Jul 22, 2022
Messages
111
Location
minnesota
Lumberjack Matt said:
You might want to consider getting a bore scope for the next time you go. You can get one for around $40 that will sync with your phone and it will let you find out if it's a specific cylinder that's stuck or if it's something else completely (timing gears rusted, flywheel stuck, etc). Especially if you are driving two hours each way, it might be worth it to just keep you from potentially barking up the wrong tree as far as diagnosis goes.

I think that is a very good idea. I have had this week off so was planning a couple of trips, next one this Thursday possibly. I'm not sure I can get the right one before I go, but will definitely get one. It be perfect also for the pony pinion clutch I'm trying to figure out. I believe its currently engaged but if that is the case I don't believe I should be able to turn the crank pulley of the pony motor which I'm able to do since the main engine is locked up. I can put my hand around the pinion gear and feel it rotate don't understand why its not meshed with the flywheel which it should be. That scope could shed some light maybe.

The hole at the bottom of precombustion chamber is 0.2", not sure if the cheap ones have that small of a tip.
Click to expand...
 
T

TomA

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Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Messages
145
Location
Mariposa, CA
On the pinion clutch, the pinion is probably not snapped into engagement with the flywheel ring gear. This is done with the horizontal lever to the right of the clutch lever, pull up to engage. The clutch is forward to engage, rear to disengage.
 
yrens

yrens

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Jul 22, 2022
Messages
111
Location
minnesota
I’ll be back at it on Tuesday I believe and try a take a picture. I believe it is engaged at the moment since the horizontal brake handle? It’s not even real clear in the manual as far as what they call it.is not in contact with it. The pinion shaft is full forward. I believe and correct me if need be, to get it to come aft and disengage I would need to pinch the counter balance levers(2) and pull it back with my hand?
 
yrens

yrens

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Joined
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Messages
111
Location
minnesota
TomA said:
On the pinion clutch, the pinion is probably not snapped into engagement with the flywheel ring gear. This is done with the horizontal lever to the right of the clutch lever, pull up to engage. The clutch is forward to engage, rear to disengage.
Click to expand...
Well I have some good news, not the news on what I really want but I will settle for small victories! I did finally get the main clutch freed up. I was able to get access to the clamp bolt on the adjusting collar and loosen the bolt. It wasn't easy but finally broke it loose. Then I had to take a brass drift and hammer to loosen it up.So now it moves back and fourth
Next, I was able to lubricate the counter lever on the pinion clutch and pinch them to disengage and pull it aft
Its now disengaged, however when it was in its full fwd position, engaged how was I able to run the pony motor with a locked up motor? ? Shouldn't the gear make contact with the main flywheel at that point?
Also was able to get a fairly good spot underneath from the drain plug for prying on the flywheel but after much persuasion I was unsuccessful.
So current state is still a locked up main motor , and stuck in neutral.

Jeff
 
Lumberjack Matt

Lumberjack Matt

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Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
96
Location
Oregon
On the main clutch, you loosened the collar that engages the clutch so you can move the clutch lever? So you have all the linkage free up to the actual clutch plates, but it's not actually snapping into engagement? Just trying to understand what you meant.

On the pinion clutch just like the main clutch when you snap them into engagement, there should be an "over center" where you have to push hard and it snaps over and requires resistance to pop it back open. When you freed up the pinion clutch did you feel that? Perhaps it was pushed forward but not all the way forward into engagement?
 
yrens

yrens

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Jul 22, 2022
Messages
111
Location
minnesota
Excellent questions. So yes the main is all free. However I left it loose and turned back for the time I was there yesterday while I was trying to free up the motor. Next time I will adjust it properly so it snaps into engagement.
I did also free up the pinion but also need to adjust that maybe also. I was under the assumption it maybe was when full fwd. But always was scratching my head on why my pony motor flywheel turns if its engaged, but maybe its like you say, unless something is sheared off? Will be back at it next week.
Jeff
 
Lumberjack Matt

Lumberjack Matt

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Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
96
Location
Oregon
So have you actually engaged the main clutch? I'm just curious if that's the part that is actually stuck. Or maybe it's so full of junk between the pressure plates that you have to back the adjustment off so it has enough play to engage.

You should be able to reach into the clutch area and feel the teeth on the pinion and see if they are engaged with the starting motor and/or flywheel. There is an additional inspection port (under the floor plate) that you can peek into and see what the pinion is doing.
PXL_20220902_043903345.jpg
 
yrens

yrens

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Messages
111
Location
minnesota
Yes I had that plate off and was able to lube the counter levers and pry them loose and then pull it back to disconnect it . I was unable to pull it back before because it was gummed up and stuck. whole time up until yesterday it was full fwd engaged (starting pinion) also up until yesterday the main clutch was stuck disengaged until I backed it off which required a brass drift and hammer for a good half turn. It was weird it was disengaged but it acted like it was stuck engaged? I think the plate ring was corroded. So I ran out of time due to the fact I was underneath prying away at the flywheel with no luck. My thought from the beginning was always to use the pony motor engaged to try and break the flywheel loose. But I need to make sure that is either misadjusted or something else? Make sense?
On another note your machine is looking I saw your latest post.
 
yrens

yrens

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Joined
Jul 22, 2022
Messages
111
Location
minnesota
Update!!!!
All…. I’m happy to say I have finally got the motor broke free I got the pinion adjusted and engaged, then was able to use my 2 1/4 wrench on a breaker bar and worked it back and fourth and it finally went.
I now have a motor free and the clutch free. I’m still stuck in neutral and will concentrate on getting the main diesel running and then focus on the transmission.
 
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