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D8K Scavenge pumps

CatSkinner77V

CatSkinner77V

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
228
Location
Sperling, Manitoba, CANADA
Occupation
Earthmoving business owner
Anybody else having problems with the CGR brand aftermarket pumps? i have been burning them up like butter these past few years. guess i better break down and buy cat again lol
 
CatSkinner77V

CatSkinner77V

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
228
Location
Sperling, Manitoba, CANADA
Occupation
Earthmoving business owner
CGR is made in Italy, they seem to make pretty good parts. I know cat is far superior, that might explain the thousand dollars difference in price!
 
D

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Price difference.

Hi, Catskinner77V.
You know, you just may be onto something there. Have you done any research to see if you get more than $1,000 worth of extra wear out of the genuine ar-tickle compared with the cheap Italian import? Plus there is the increased risk of worn pump metal going right through your tranmission system. I don't think I need to tell you what getting that out would entail.

Hope this helps.
 
S

Sparffo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
223
Location
Finland
Occupation
Demolition contractor
Deas Plant said:
Hi, Catskinner77V.
Have you done any research to see if you get more than $1,000 worth of extra wear out
Click to expand...

and the downtime when the machine is repared... at least here in Finland downtime and the repair work costs often more than the difference in good/expencive and bad/cheap solutions.

When my dad was still in charge of my company, then we used to repair the machines in the cheapest possible way and as fast as possible... in the end we vere repairing the machinery all the time and old parts wore out new parts, so we only had half the expexted life cyckle of parts :bash

I tried to tell him many times that spending more can be a lot cheaper in the end, but he couldnt figure that out. so when me and my brother retired the old man, in a couple of years we did a lot more money and looked a lot more professional than in years!
we had a lot less downtime, a lot less machanic bills and a lot less wear on other parts, but a little more expences on parts.

this is something i learned when racing Motocross and Enduro, i used to ride A-class and even Enduro World Championships, so i couldn't afford any mechanical failiures.
especially when repairing gearboxes or other parts that wear against each other, then it is extremly important to change both to get an even wear!

recently our Hyundai lc290 went to the repair shop, the injector pump was not working like it should...
we ended up changing the whole pump because of extreme internal wear, so i tought it might be good to take a look at the nozles also.
one nozle broke so we had to take the entire top of the engine... at the same time we noticed the turbo was quite worn also, so it will also be replaced along goes the valves...
damn expencive! but now the top end is like new!
exchange injectorpump (new) 1500€
nozles 90€ each x6 540€
exchange turbo (new) 690€
gaskets 350€
valves probabbly 500€
labour 1500€?
the down part looked/measured good, so we leave that this time.

anyway the turbo and valves costs a couple of 1000€ more, but i don't have to drag the machine to the shop after some months when the turbo has broke it's wings and the pistons have jammed the valves all over the combustion chamber:drinkup
 
C

CarterKraft

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
64
Location
DFW
Sparffo said:
and the downtime when the machine is repared... at least here in Finland downtime and the repair work costs often more than the difference in good/expencive and bad/cheap solutions.

When my dad was still in charge of my company, then we used to repair the machines in the cheapest possible way and as fast as possible... in the end we vere repairing the machinery all the time and old parts wore out new parts, so we only had half the expexted life cyckle of parts :bash

I tried to tell him many times that spending more can be a lot cheaper in the end, but he couldnt figure that out. so when me and my brother retired the old man, in a couple of years we did a lot more money and looked a lot more professional than in years!
we had a lot less downtime, a lot less machanic bills and a lot less wear on other parts, but a little more expences on parts.

this is something i learned when racing Motocross and Enduro, i used to ride A-class and even Enduro World Championships, so i couldn't afford any mechanical failiures.
especially when repairing gearboxes or other parts that wear against each other, then it is extremly important to change both to get an even wear!

recently our Hyundai lc290 went to the repair shop, the injector pump was not working like it should...
we ended up changing the whole pump because of extreme internal wear, so i tought it might be good to take a look at the nozles also.
one nozle broke so we had to take the entire top of the engine... at the same time we noticed the turbo was quite worn also, so it will also be replaced along goes the valves...
damn expencive! but now the top end is like new!
exchange injectorpump (new) 1500€
nozles 90€ each x6 540€
exchange turbo (new) 690€
gaskets 350€
valves probabbly 500€
labour 1500€?
the down part looked/measured good, so we leave that this time.

anyway the turbo and valves costs a couple of 1000€ more, but i don't have to drag the machine to the shop after some months when the turbo has broke it's wings and the pistons have jammed the valves all over the combustion chamber:drinkup
Click to expand...

Well said.

We have some customers that get it and some that don't. When we come to your machine we give you a quote for the repair that we will warrant for 1 year 2000 hours. Some customers understand the value in that and some don't. The ones that don't we get to see see them more and more, with increased cost's and allot of times we have to replace parts that were new because a old part wiped it out, but they still don't get it.

Job security I guess.
 
T

tctractors

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
2,411
Location
Worc U.K.
Cheap pumps,

I have fitted loads of pumps onto D8H/K tractors, some of my customers will only have the CAT parts, some will only have the cheap stuff,then there is a few that fit the cheap pumps after swapping out the bearings for CAT items, I dont bother myself with the pos/neg of it all, but I do know few of these tractors have the transmission oil changed as recomended, plus the filters are just pulled out of the filter housing without draining down and cleaning the case???, as for metal particals floating about, there is more filings made from lugging the torque down forcing the pump drive gear towards the output shaft housing, or from the brake drums, than any oil pump calfing down, as things are now ££$$ wise I would fit the cheap stuff and have a few Beers with the change.

tctractors
 
T

tctractors

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
2,411
Location
Worc U.K.
Oil pumps

Forgot to say that CGR and CAT pumps come with a 12 months hope of lasting, or your free replacement, CGR pump = £200
CAT pump = £2100
This equals to 1Pump and about 1000 pints of Beer, or 1 pump and buy your own pint???? its the English way of working things out.

No harm intended. tctractors
 
C

CAT793

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
141
Location
australia
For a simple test of CAT quality compared to your "Dodgy Brothers" aftermarket components get a gear, shaft whatever and put a ball bearing in a glass/perspex tube and drop it from a pre-determined height (eg 12 inches) allowing it to bounce off the surface and measure the height it rebounds to. This will give a indication to the surface and depth of hardness of the product. Try it and you will be astounded by the difference and helps to convince the customer what he is paying for!
We also used to use it on reclaimed rods (hydraulic cylinders). Costs next to nothig to give indication to the quality and longevity!
 
T

tctractors

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
2,411
Location
Worc U.K.
CAT parts

There is no doubt about the fact that Cat can make a good bit of steel work rather well for a long time, I have a D7-3t that Cat still supply all the bits I need for, even after nearly 60 years of building the tractor, to balance this off JCB struggle with parts supply after 6 months of selling some of their units, but the pump thing is easily repaired/replaced so I myself would stick to the cheap stuff, and put the cash saved towards new bearings in the final drives.

tctractors
 
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