• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

John Deere 4045 HPCR Low Engine Power

B

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,323
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
Deere 4045HF285 serial PE4045L034496

This is a common rail engine but no other fancy features. Generator engine, 1800 RPM only.

It can maintain 1800 RPM right up to about 70 kw electrical which would equate to 94 HP, neglecting losses, engine cooling fan, etc.

If load is increased beyond this, it begins to slow down, and then the generator cuts back voltage which cuts load, so it always stays right at about 70 kw.

Starts and runs perfectly other than this, no abnormal smoke, just does not seem to have the snoose to pull any more power.

I have an air filter to go on tomorrow, but I don't think that is it. The old one looked like new and there was no smoke of note.
 
Tones

Tones

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
3,082
Location
Ubique
Occupation
Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
Check the primary fuel filter sediment bowl sensor. At times a spec of dirt under the rubber can cause the engine to derate. It was common with a forestry mulcher I had with this engine and not always threw any code number.
 
B

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,323
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
Capture.PNG This unit has no display for codes. I have an aftermarket controller on the shelf I could probably hook up, but I am sure it would be a pain to make it work. I believe it does have a diagnostic lamp. I have not been able to find any info on how it behaves or how to get codes. The entirety of the "diagnostic box" is this lamp, high side to ECM switched power and low side to ECM pin C1, "warning lamp", plus a momentary switch to provide ECM power when the controller is not providing power. Is there a way to do flash codes through this? Will the lamp light and stay on if there is a code or problem, while the engine is running normally?

Curiously there is a mechanical fuel pressure gauge installed. It says Murphy Switchgauge but there is no switch on it. 1-2 psi running at full load.

Fuel return is a small line, a pretty good jet of fuel coming back and very hot even less than a minute after cold starting the engine with no load. I guess that is just the HPCR pump beating up the fuel real bad and returning it to the tank? I have it running out of a jerry can at the moment, no fuel in the main tank.
 
Last edited:
mg2361

mg2361

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
5,137
Location
Pennsylvania
Occupation
Equipment Mechanic
My guess is, when there is an active code, that light will light. I do not know of any procedure for blink codes. What brand genset is this in? From that, I can do a little more digging to see if I can come with anything. Don't hold your breath, though.:D
 
B

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,323
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
More info.

From cold start, the fuel line from the rail relief and back to the return gets hot immediately. The injector leak-off line does not seem to be getting warm, nor do the 2 high pressure lines from the pump heads to the rail. So I suspect the rail relief is going off.

A while ago I had a very similar engine in here. The problem was hard starting. We think the suction control valve on that one was bad and caused high pressure taking out the rail relief and leaving it open. This one is different. It starts just fine even after sitting a very long time. Just does not reach full power.

My current theory is that the PCV is causing high rail pressure and causing the rail to operate at high pressure and the valve to be going off continually. But without a laptop, I can't see rail pressure or PCV command or anything like that. Nobody around here can diagnose Deere that I know of.

It is in a Kohler genset.

The engine light is blinking continuously the whole time the engine runs.
 
Tones

Tones

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
3,082
Location
Ubique
Occupation
Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
At the risk of a seemingly dumb question, does the generator have a Power Control Unit that runs the Engine Control Unit?
 
mg2361

mg2361

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
5,137
Location
Pennsylvania
Occupation
Equipment Mechanic
Unfortunately, you need some diagnostic software at this point.
 
B

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,323
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
Tones said:
At the risk of a seemingly dumb question, does the generator have a Power Control Unit that runs the Engine Control Unit?
Click to expand...

It does some rudimentary comm via CANBUS, but there is no display on the generator controller. It is analog needles and a dozen lights for things like LOP, HET, etc.

The previous one of these I worked on did have a genset controller that gave me the SPN/FMI or whatever they called it that led us to replace the PCV/rail relief and I suspect something similar is going on here but I am not willing to shotgun this. I could install a genset controller on the CANBUS temporarily, I have one in stock, but I think it would be a big job for little info.

The trouble is, there are no local mechanics that are willing to pay Deere's exorbitant prices, and the dealers are a very long way off.

I was thinking about seeing about renting a laptop kit and back charging the customer, but I don't know if that is really a good idea or not.
 
Tones

Tones

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
3,082
Location
Ubique
Occupation
Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
The reason I asked is the machine I mentioned above had a power control unit that controlled everything on that machine including engine stop and start and throttle settings. There was never a problem with the Deere ECU and in 6000hrs it went through 5 PCUs and only the manufacturer of it could do any repair or reset with about a 5 months turnaround when times were good. At times the engine would crank but not fire, other times it wouldn't crank and so on.
 
B

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,323
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
This one has basically the same controller as was used in the 1980s when diesel engines had a mechanical gov and a single wire to make it run.

The difference here is simply they just run a switched hot to the ECM that turns it on. The throttle wires are simply connected to fixed resistors. Everything is fixed and locked, just looks like they adapted the prior models that had mechanical engines to run the electronic engine.
 
B

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,323
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
Is there any indication whether the amber light flashing the whole time it is running is an indication there is a code set, or is it just normal operation?
 
P

partsandservice

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
846
Location
Georgia
I find some of the jd engines in industrial equipment use a J1939 and can be tapped into with most scanners . It sounds like it is in a derate condition. Without the scanner you could disconnect the return line out of the rail and run, there should be no fuel exiting through the rail relief. If the pump regulator has lost current, it will default to full on . Also I would check out the injector tubes, they need to tight tight. Small rail leaks at the tubes will cause power loss at load.
 
Last edited:
heymccall

heymccall

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
5,377
Location
Western Pennsylvania
Can't you just add a PowerView? It's not like that engine will never need faults checked again.
I paid $300 thru PittAuto last time.
78700439 is for pre-Tier IV.
 

Attachments

  • PV101C Powerview Murphy.pdf
    115.4 KB · Views: 7
Last edited:
B

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,323
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
partsandservice said:
The blinking light is probably your check engine light. Does it start flash as soon as you power on?
Click to expand...

If I power the ECM on without the engine running, it comes on steady for a few seconds and then flashes continuously. With the engine running, it also flashes continuously.

I believe I have a spare/new genset controller that will display codes. Unfortunately, the status of this machine in my yard is now in limbo, so it will be a few days before we see if I get to continue this project. Just trying to discover what I can now, as I am sure more of the same will be coming. The later models had a more advanced control that would display fault codes on its own, but this one still has steam gauges and lights.
 
heymccall

heymccall

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
5,377
Location
Western Pennsylvania
Install a PowerView for the customer.

5 wires to hook up and an approx 2inch hole.
B+
God
Can +
Can -
Can shield

6th wire is fuel level if you desire.
Screenshot_20220831-120319_Drive.jpg Screenshot_20220831-120337_Drive.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top