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End Dump Pup operation

B

Brandt

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Apr 20, 2010
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197
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Wyoming
OK, so I picked up a pup (with some warts) to go with my end dump truck. Both loads I have hauled required a pull to get going again. I dump the pup where it needs to go, then when I dump the lead, it seems that I MUST be jacked at 90* or I'm not getting out. The last load I was jacked at about 45* and very much needed a pull to get the pup over the load.
How do you guys empty the lead box w/o getting stuck?
 
skyking1

skyking1

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Nov 3, 2020
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Location
washington
Gotta be jacked almost 90. It is just the way it gets done. I never need to assist on a decent site, and frankly try to never "help" a truck that way. As an operator I buy any damage that may occur. We strive to make the site workable and it is up to the driver to get his part done.
 
cfherrman

cfherrman

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Jun 3, 2022
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Hays, Kansas
I e seen some cool you tube videos of this, well it was a regular dump with pup, but it was awesome to see how he jacked it around to dump both loads without problem.
 
colson04

colson04

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Delton, Michigan
The guys I watched out west with the long tongue pups always jacked the pup 90degrees to one side to dump the truck, or dropped the pup if there wasn't enough room to get turned the full 90.

I've never seen long tongue pups here in Michigan. The pups pulled around here are usually 4, 5 or 6 axle on a dolly, pulled by a high horsepower straight dump. This is called a 'short double'. The only way you're dumping that setup is to dump the pup, unhook pup out of the way, dump truck, and then hook up pup to truck again. They can max out at 11 axles between truck and pup. Smallest I've seen operating was 7 axle set up(3 axle truck, 4 axle pup)

1661632032087.jpg
 
S

suladas

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colson04 said:
The guys I watched out west with the long tongue pups always jacked the pup 90degrees to one side to dump the truck, or dropped the pup if there wasn't enough room to get turned the full 90.

I've never seen long tongue pups here in Michigan. The pups pulled around here are usually 4, 5 or 6 axle on a dolly, pulled by a high horsepower straight dump. This is called a 'short double'. The only way you're dumping that setup is to dump the pup, unhook pup out of the way, dump truck, and then hook up pup to truck again. They can max out at 11 axles between truck and pup. Smallest I've seen operating was 7 axle set up(3 axle truck, 4 axle pup)

View attachment 266941
Click to expand...

That's crazy, why would anyone want a setup that requires unhooking the trailer each time you need to dump the truck? Such a waste of time.

Here it's a pup with long tongue, or a wagon with a long tongue. The wagons have 2 articulation points so you can turn around tight enough where you could park the truck in one stall and park the wagon is a stall next to it backwards. With a wagon they go up to 5 axles, 3 in the rear 2 in the front.

In some rare cases though they dump both while driving in a straight line slowly, like if it's road crush on a road job.
 
colson04

colson04

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@suladas
Because that setup can legally haul 50+ tons into a very confined space with one driver. If you ever watch them pull in to a site, they can dump the pup, drop the pup, dump the truck, and hook back up in about 10-15 minutes. With a fish mouth receiver on the back of the truck, you just have to get close and it feeds the pintle ring right where it needs to go to drop the pin. Then its glad hands, 7 pin connector and roll out. The tongues are held by a spring close the right height for the truck and there's no landing gear to drop because the pup is on a dolly. Bigger contractors pull gravel trains/ Michigan doubles. Still an 11 axle setup, but the longer length gives them better spacing which allows them to gross more on certain axles.
 
S

suladas

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colson04 said:
@suladas
Because that setup can legally haul 50+ tons into a very confined space with one driver. If you ever watch them pull in to a site, they can dump the pup, drop the pup, dump the truck, and hook back up in about 10-15 minutes. With a fish mouth receiver on the back of the truck, you just have to get close and it feeds the pintle ring right where it needs to go to drop the pin. Then its glad hands, 7 pin connector and roll out. The tongues are held by a spring close the right height for the truck and there's no landing gear to drop because the pup is on a dolly. Bigger contractors pull gravel trains/ Michigan doubles. Still an 11 axle setup, but the longer length gives them better spacing which allows them to gross more on certain axles.
Click to expand...

I guess it would work, assuming it's a straight road there :eek:

Here they can get 140,000lbs on 8 axles. Depending on weight of truck and wagon, you'll get over 100,000lbs of payload. Depending on the site, all they need is room to back the wagon close to 90 degrees which for a good driver isn't much and it'll be dumped in 2 minutes. If it's a really long haul like 2-3 hours roundtrip on a straight road I could see where that combo might make sense, but it would need a football field to turn around in, or you'd be replacing tires every week on it. Other setup you see here is a b-train end dump on the rear and a lead side dump, no unhooking or backing up that way can dump both in a straight line. Bit more limited in what they can haul though.

I mean if you're doing say 90 mins roundtrip, 5 trips a day, that setup will cost you 1 trip a day and that's without any screw ups, it would negate a bit extra hauled very quickly. I wonder how long the average truck goes before a driver forgets to undo a air line or electrical? Or forgets to hook up electrical? Doing it 5 times a day, it's only a matter of time.

I will say i'm glad we don't have those weird setups here. No tag axles, no truck lift axles none of that random axles hanging off every point of the truck. Just straight regular axles that make sense. When I look at those pictures it looks like photoshop, or someone on something who came up with the insane idea.
 
Tones

Tones

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Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
Queenslander said:
I guess you would call this a 180.
I don’t drive enough truck and dog to master it myself but is fairly common to see here.
Click to expand...
I have seen drivers do the same thing with A trains ( semi with a trailer) first time every time even with short drawbars similar to the rig above.
 
C

cuttin edge

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Here the pup is on a long drawbar. Dump the pup, the jack knife the pup and dump the truck. On road jobs, tale spread the pup, back up, the tale spread the truck.
 
C

cuttin edge

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Finish grader operator
suladas said:
I guess it would work, assuming it's a straight road there :eek:

Here they can get 140,000lbs on 8 axles. Depending on weight of truck and wagon, you'll get over 100,000lbs of payload. Depending on the site, all they need is room to back the wagon close to 90 degrees which for a good driver isn't much and it'll be dumped in 2 minutes. If it's a really long haul like 2-3 hours roundtrip on a straight road I could see where that combo might make sense, but it would need a football field to turn around in, or you'd be replacing tires every week on it. Other setup you see here is a b-train end dump on the rear and a lead side dump, no unhooking or backing up that way can dump both in a straight line. Bit more limited in what they can haul though.

I mean if you're doing say 90 mins roundtrip, 5 trips a day, that setup will cost you 1 trip a day and that's without any screw ups, it would negate a bit extra hauled very quickly. I wonder how long the average truck goes before a driver forgets to undo a air line or electrical? Or forgets to hook up electrical? Doing it 5 times a day, it's only a matter of time.

I will say i'm glad we don't have those weird setups here. No tag axles, no truck lift axles none of that random axles hanging off every point of the truck. Just straight regular axles that make sense. When I look at those pictures it looks like photoshop, or someone on something who came up with the insane idea.
Click to expand...
Down east, we run pusher axles ahead of the tandems on a tractor. They still run an air lift on the trailer, but you can't adjust the air pressure, it's up for turning, then down. One of our 4 axle floats as an air lift for when you are empty, but no one uses it. When I first got my truck license, you could run an adjustable air lift on the trailer. If your load was 60,000lbs, you ran 60lbs in the air lift, and if it was a turner quick lift, with the upside down springs, you added an extra 20lbs. I remember seeing ontario trucks with lift axles on the rear and middle of the trailer.
 
Truck Shop

Truck Shop

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When I drove end dumps in early 90's, I would raise and trip the pup, raise the front box time the trip
so pup would dribble out roughly three feet past where front box started. Drop the pup box then drop
front box and head for the pit.
 
Tones

Tones

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Years ago blokes I worked with could spread a load of gravel down a road with a truck and trailer and the only difference on the ground was the where the gravel spilled off the drawbar. They were guns compared with the gearjammers of today.
 
skyking1

skyking1

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washington
I was thinking back to this truck driver Roy. He was with Olson Brothers and he could spot the pup anywhere within inches for me, first time. He would back into these tight city alley and corner lots with no leeway and put the trailer right where I needed it. I have no idea how he could see that well in the mirrors.
I have a moto mirror on the right on my truck but no way can I shoot that tight first time.
Sometimes you have to look back to realize just how good somebody was, how helpful.
 
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S

suladas

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I guess Michigan must have a lot of straight roads. Or maybe the drive brings along a swamper to throw sand down to attempt any type of turn? If I saw a truck like that on the road, i'd swear some crackhead fabbed it up and no way was it actually run anywhere.

With all those axles down and loaded, I don't think that truck would even stay on the road on a corner on some highways here.
 
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