319D Slow cranking, no start due to engine load from hydraulics

Doug Britten · Aug 10, 2022

My JD 319D will not crank fast enough to start (less than 180 RPM). I replaced the starter (burned out the old one), battery, and checked the wires for voltage at the starter. Everything seems fine. The manual says it could be from engine load due to hydraulics. Is there a solenoid or something that opens during cranking to reduce the drag on the engine? Is there an easy way to determine if this is the correct diagnosis such as remove the hydraulic filter and put a bucket underneath just to see if it starts? Any help appreciated.

mg2361 · Aug 10, 2022

Serial number?

Do you have pressure gauges?

Doug Britten · Aug 10, 2022

I have a fuel pressure gauge kit. I can get whatever I need to diagnose. Thanks.

mg2361 · Aug 10, 2022

The "D" series can be difficult at best to troubleshoot hard start issues. They have had a bunch of issues with starting.

Is this an issue that has recently cropped up?

What engine oil do you use?

You will need a 1000 psi gauge to plug into the test fitting at the hydraulic filter. You will also need to test fuel pressure to insure that the fuel supply is good. What pressure fuel gauge do you have? Do you have an infrared temp gun?

Doug Britten · Aug 11, 2022

Yes, this is a new issue. I have never had any trouble starting in warm weather. The engine oil is Rotella 15w-40. The fuel pressure test kit is from Harbor Freight. I can get a 1000 psi gauge and infrared temp gun if needed. The machine has been disabled for a couple of months in an area where I cannot get it on a trailer to transport. I do not think it is a fuel issue. The machine definitely cranks much slower than before and also drains the battery much faster with any long crank time.

mg2361 · Aug 11, 2022

It is highly recommended to use 0W-40 synthetic in those engines. But if you have not had an issue before in cold weather, then stick to what you are using.

When you get a gauge, there is a test fitting at the hydraulic filter head. See what pressure you are reading there when cranking.

Doug Britten · Aug 11, 2022

I will definitely change to 0W-40 next time. Do you know the what size thread for the test port? i plan on 3000 psi buying a gauge from Northern Tool. I have the manual but it only refers to the specific Deere tool.

mg2361 · Aug 12, 2022

Buy a diagnostic quick coupler to attach to the coupler on the filter.

This is what I use with a whip hose:

https://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Equipment-Coupler-Female-Thread/dp/B0978NMQ3N/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?crid=1MOI1TNCJOP3G&keywords=parker+diagnostic+quick+coupler&qid=1660296201&sprefix=parker+diagnostic+quick+coupler,aps,329&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFNSjJOSVZXSTJSQlUmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAyMzI0MTAxTjlGWkFYWFlMVzA4JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2NzU4MTYzNTlKMUlPQ0dTM0ZEJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Or this directly to a gauge or with a whip hose:

https://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-E...04-ba65-0416a534d2fc&pd_rd_i=B08BHYSSR6&psc=1

Doug Britten · Aug 12, 2022

Thanks. I ordered a gauge and quick coupler. I will update once I get a reading.

Doug Britten · Aug 17, 2022

Finally got my gauge and coupler. I got a reading of 300 psi.

Thanks

heymccall · Aug 17, 2022

A) exhaust smoke when cranking?
II) defective starting motor
c) poor battery capacity or charge state?

Is starter of known brand?
Is battery high enough CCA?
Does it have a preheat function?
How many hours on machine?

mg2361 · Aug 18, 2022

300 psi means the cold start bypass valve is functioning correctly.

I don't think parasitic load is your issue. You replaced a starter and a battery. Did you actually perform a voltage drop check on the positive and negative cables? You could have an internally corroded cable or a bad ground.

You could eliminate parasitic load by acquiring fittings and couplers to plug into your auxiliary quick couplers. Crank and see if there is pressure there.

Doug Britten · Aug 18, 2022

heymccall said:
A) exhaust smoke when cranking?
II) defective starting motor
c) poor battery capacity or charge state?

Is starter of known brand?
Is battery high enough CCA?
Does it have a preheat function?
How many hours on machine?

There is smoke when cranking.
Replaced the starter motor with Bosch starter.
Brant new battery, fully charged with correct CCA
It has a preheat function but ambient temperature is hot enough it is not necessary
it has about 1500 hours.

Doug Britten · Aug 18, 2022

mg2361 said:
300 psi means the cold start bypass valve is functioning correctly.

I don't think parasitic load is your issue. You replaced a starter and a battery. Did you actually perform a voltage drop check on the positive and negative cables? You could have an internally corroded cable or a bad ground.

You could eliminate parasitic load by acquiring fittings and couplers to plug into your auxiliary quick couplers. Crank and see if there is pressure there.

I tested voltage at the starter but not a voltage drop test. What is the best way to perform the test?

I cleaned and checked all the connection so if it is a bad ground it would have to be in the wire.

How would I use the couplers to check the aux hydraulics? I have a root rake with grapples that I could connect. I could also use the hose just to create a loop for the aux hydraulics.

Thank you for the info and recommendations.

mg2361 · Aug 18, 2022

Doug Britten said:
How would I use the couplers to check the aux hydraulics? I have a root rake with grapples that I could connect.

If you connect the root rake to the couplers, crank the engine and see if anything moves.

Doug Britten said:
I tested voltage at the starter but not a voltage drop test. What is the best way to perform the test?

For the positive cable, positive lead of the meter to the positive battery post, negative lead of your meter to the starter battery post. Crank the engine. You should not have more than 0.1 volt per foot of cable.

For the negative, negative lead of the meter to the negative post, positive lead of the meter to the starter frame. Crank engine. Same spec, 0.1 volt per foot of cable.

Doug Britten · Aug 21, 2022

mg2361 said:
If you connect the root rake to the couplers, crank the engine and see if anything moves.

For the positive cable, positive lead of the meter to the positive battery post, negative lead of your meter to the starter battery post. Crank the engine. You should not have more than 0.1 volt per foot of cable.

For the negative, negative lead of the meter to the negative post, positive lead of the meter to the starter frame. Crank engine. Same spec, 0.1 volt per foot of cable.

I got a reading of .27 volts on the positive and .11 on the negative. I also used jumper cables and attached the positive directly to the pole on the starter and there was no changing in cranking speed.

The grapple did not move when cranking so I guess I have eliminated the possible hydraulic issue. Ugh. What to try next? Thanks

mg2361 · Aug 22, 2022

Press and hold the menu button until "Service Menu" appears in the screen. Scroll to diagnostics. Scroll to fuel pressure. What is your fuel pressure while cranking?

If I have time later when I am at work, I'll PM you some information.

Doug Britten · Aug 22, 2022

mg2361 said:
Press and hold the menu button until "Service Menu" appears in the screen. Scroll to diagnostics. Scroll to fuel pressure. What is your fuel pressure while cranking?

If I have time later when I am at work, I'll PM you some information.

8 PSI.

It stumbles like it is trying to start. I tried spraying some diesel in the air intake but didn't seem to make a difference. Thanks again.

mg2361 · Aug 22, 2022

Pressure should be adequate to start.

You might want to put a clear line in the fuel return circuit back to tank with a vertical loop in it. Crank the engine and see how much air is in the line after it it fills with fuel.

Check your PM's.

Doug Britten · Aug 22, 2022

mg2361 said:
Pressure should be adequate to start.

You might want to put a clear line in the fuel return circuit back to tank with a vertical loop in it. Crank the engine and see how much air is in the line after it it fills with fuel.

Check your PM's.

Thanks for the info. Questions based on possible issues:

1. Low fuel pressure: Is there anything beside diesel that I can spray into the air intake? I've read that starter fluid can damage a diesel? I figure if i can get it started that way, I know it is definitely a fuel issue.
2. Camshaft timing has slipped: Could camshaft timing causes the engine to turn over slower? How can I determine if it has slipped? I have no active codes.
3. Low engine compression: Low engine compression should increase cranking speed I would think.
4. Faulty EUP: Should start if I spray fuel in air intake.

Thanks for all the help.

319D Slow cranking, no start due to engine load from hydraulics

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